Bill C-316

Court Challenges Program Act

An Act to amend the Department of Canadian Heritage Act (Court Challenges Program)

This enactment amends the Department of Canadian Heritage Act to specify that, in exercising the powers and performing the duties and functions assigned to the Minister of Canadian Heritage under that Act, he or she shall maintain the Court Challenges Program.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I understood that you said Bill C-316 for the second hour.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Good afternoon, everyone. I will call the meeting to order.

We are resuming meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, which was suspended on Thursday, May 23.

Before I begin, I would like to ask all members and other in-person participants to consult the cards in front of you for the guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Take note of the following preventive measures in place to protect the health and safety of all participants, including our interpreters. Again, use only the black earpieces. Keep your earpiece away from all microphones, if you can, at all times. When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the sticker in front of you. Thank you for your co-operation if you do that.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format.

We are resuming meeting 121. Because the meeting was suspended during clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-316, the committee would resume debate where it left off; however, the minister is in front of us here and available for the main estimates for 2024-2025 during the first hour. I am going to propose that we have the minister here for the first hour, and then we'll continue the second hour, if we can, on Bill C-316.

I would like now to welcome our witnesses.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

In response to a question from Ms. Ashton, you mentioned the importance of the court challenges program, which Bill C-316 would maintain. Based on the challenges that were raised throughout Ontario, it became clear that this program was important in education, just as the Montfort Hospital case demonstrated that it was important in health, and also in justice, as shown in Manitoba.

The Conservatives previously cut this program twice. And recently, the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage welcomed a witness who had been Mr. Harper's chief of staff, who once again recommended cutting this program.

What impact would cancelling this program for a third time have on our official language minority communities?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I see. Thank you very much.

I'd like to go back to the point that you addressed in your report and that concerns the work that the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage is currently doing. In your report, you discuss how important court challenges are in guaranteeing language rights. We're currently discussing Bill C-316 in the Heritage committee, on which I also sit.

Would you please tell us how court challenges have helped to secure the rights of Canada's francophones? Would you recommend that we pass this bill as soon as possible?

Department of Justice—Main Estimates, 2024-25

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my next question may be a little long. I am going to present a scenario, which will give the minister plenty of time to answer.

The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage is currently studying Bill C-316, which deals with a program that we want to create a framework for and that we hope will become permanent. The Bloc Québécois defended this program during the years of the Harper government, which wanted to abolish it. We fought alongside other opposition parties at the time to protect this program, which is very important for advancing the rights of francophones outside Quebec and for advancing the human rights of many individuals and groups.

The current program includes a provision that prevents the federal government from funding challenges of Quebec or provincial legislation through the human rights branch. We think it would be appropriate for Quebec, as a nation repeatedly recognized by Parliament, to have access to a similar provision, an asymmetry provision for Quebec, to ensure that the program cannot fund challenges to the Charter of the French Language. This would help us protect the French language in Quebec while continuing to actively advocate for the advancement of francophones outside Quebec.

Will the minister accept the Bloc Québécois's offer of help and agree to consider suggested amendments to Bill C‑316 to this effect?

[Philippe Méla]

Bill C‑316 seeks to amend the Department of Canadian Heritage Act and maintain the Court Challenges Program, or CCP.

Amendment BQ-1 proposes to exempt the province of Quebec, provided it is involved in the cases in question, under the laws of the province of Quebec. This amendment would go beyond the scope of the bill and would therefore be contrary to its principle.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I did. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree with this. When I was going through the budget, there was a lot of money not spent—hundreds of thousands of dollars, actually. I was concerned with the accountability on this bill, the money being put forward into Bill C-316 and the money that is there today.

I think the accountability is one that I'm really concerned with in this bill. We're putting money into a bill that already has hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I would like to ask the officials, Madam Chair, if you don't mind, about my concern. When I looked at what was in the bill and how much money was there, I was shocked that there were hundreds of thousands of dollars, and yet this government is going to put even more in there. Fiscally, I was just concerned about that.

Mr. McMurren, I would like to get your perspective on this, because when I first looked at the bill, I was shocked at the hundreds of thousands that were not spent, and we're putting more money into this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 22, 2023, the committee is returning to its consideration of Bill C-316, an act to amend the Canadian Heritage Act with respect to the court challenges program.

Before we begin, I'm going to do the usual housekeeping.

Could you all consult the cards on the table? The cards on the table tell you how to prevent audio feedback. I'll remind you of the little decal on the top to place your earpiece, so we can have a good meeting with nobody getting hurt.

Now, again, keep your earpiece away from all microphones. I'm still trying to figure out how I can speak and be automatically turned off, like I used to with the old phones. I have to remember to keep pressing to take myself off speaking. There you are. That's a little glitch we're trying to fix.

Now, today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I want to make a few comments for the benefit of members and witnesses.

Please wait until I recognize you by name. For those of you who are here virtually, please raise your hands in the virtual box, so I can recognize you.

Again, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

We have here with us again Blair McMurren, director general, strategic policy and international affairs, and Flavie Major, director, international affairs and human rights, strategic policy and international affairs, from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Of course we have our legislative clerk, Mr. Méla, whom we all know very well. He's a patient man, indeed.

Resuming debate on the clause-by-clause, we are now looking at the subamendment of Mrs. Rachael Thomas. It's a subamendment to the amendment that we still have to vote on for G-1.

I'm going to read you the subamendment, just to make sure that everybody has it. Of course, I have to first and foremost find it in my notes.

Mrs. Thomas, after the words, “independent of the Government of Canada”, is inserting, “for which the selection criteria shall be made public and the final selection decision shall be tabled in each House of Parliament.”

That then goes with Mr. Serré's subamendment, which Mr. Méla wants to make a comment on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

In keeping with the House of Commons order of November 22, 2023, we are resuming consideration of Bill C-316, an act to amend the Canadian Heritage Act regarding the court challenges program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's not what the meeting is about today, so I don't know. There would have to be unanimous consent for the motion to be allowed. Because we're dealing with Bill C-316 right now and we're waiting for translation and a legal opinion on Mrs. Thomas's subamendment, I think we just have to sit here right now and wait out the time, unless I get unanimous consent.

Ms. Lattanzio, are you able to speak? No.

Okay, so Ms. Lattanzio is out of the picture.

As the chair, I am at the wishes of the committee.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

First of all, I know the work Ms. Ashton has done on human rights and indigenous rights. The Canadian Human Rights Act is very important, but my understanding is that it's completely separate from this bill.

Can I ask our expert witnesses about that? Is there overlap with Bill C-316, or does the Canadian Human Rights Act have its own processes? I just want to clarify that, if they can add to it.

Based on my understanding, I will be voting against this, because it's a completely separate process outside of the scope of this bill. I just want to get clarification, please.

[Blair McMurren]

The subamendment is seeking to bring language into Bill C-316 from the Official Languages Act, and, as it happens elsewhere in the same bill, from the Department of Canadian Heritage Act.

I don't know if it would be helpful to read out those other two provisions. I could do that.

[Blair McMurren]

I think it is amending Bill C-316 to reflect what is in Bill C-13.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Okay, so we're amending the Official Languages Act to reflect the language in Bill C-316. That's the original amendment, or do I have that wrong?

[Blair McMurren]

As I understand it, it's simply to use the same language in Bill C-316 to describe what the program is meant to do.