Environment Committee on June 6th, 2024

[Michele Harradence]

We've talked quite a bit about the regulatory challenges and hurdles that come from investing in the country. In particular, linear infrastructure such as ours faces many years and many levels of regulatory hurdles in order to get in the ground and start delivering and providing that egress that Mr. McKenzie spoke to.

That's the fundamental reason.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Can witnesses share with the committee what they feel would happen to global emissions if the oil and gas sector and the oil sands in Alberta were shut down tomorrow?

Mr. Kruger.

[Rich Kruger]

If Canadian oil and gas were shut down tomorrow, I don't think global emissions would improve. The oil and gas would just come from other jurisdictions—jurisdictions that would have a variety of carbon content and certainly a much lower standard of ESG in general.

I believe that because I've worked in many of those countries.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Can some of the other witnesses say whether they agree with that last answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have 10 seconds.

[Brad Corson]

I agree completely.

[Jon McKenzie]

I would agree as well.

Global demand for all forms of hydrocarbons continues to grow. We've said for a long time that those barrels should best come from Canada, where we produce the most responsible barrel globally.

[Michele Harradence]

Enbridge completely agrees as well, so I would agree as well. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. van Koeverden, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to follow up on that, if I could.

I'm looking at a graph I used earlier. Canadian oil sands have an emissions intensity, on average, of about 174 kilograms of CO2 per barrel. In Mexico, Cantarell, for example, has 40 kilograms per barrel CO2 emissions.

If we were to take the exact same number of barrels away from the oil sands, if we were to shift all of that production of crude oil to Mexico and reduce the average emissions intensity per barrel by that amount, how can every witness on the committee today agree that emissions would go up, if the most emissions-intensive barrels of oil—and I'm just talking about the oil sands here—were replaced by lower emitting barrels? Could somebody please explain that to me?

[Rich Kruger]

Yes, I'll comment.

Your premise, your suggestion, is that shutting down the oil sands makes the world a better place. I don't subscribe to that theory because I think of what we're doing on—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

For clarity, Mr. Kruger—I'm sorry but I have limited time—I was not suggesting shutting down the oil sands. However, if we could improve the emissions intensity—

[Rich Kruger]

I thought that was the basis of your question.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Yes, if we can improve the—

[Rich Kruger]

I thought that was the basis of your question. I thought you started it by, if you shut down the oil sands, doesn't it come from somewhere else? I'm sorry, my misunderstanding. I'll let you clarify.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

What I said was that, if we were to move production from one place to another...and just oil sands, okay? We're just talking about the oil sands, not Canadian energy production. You said we should bet on Canadians, and I 100% agree. I would like to bet on the Canadians who were working in the solar and wind that you sold off from Suncor.

I'd just like to address a couple of things before I move on. Mr.—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Is there a point of order, a good point of order?

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I welcome the member to come and actually tour an oil sands company.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's not a point of order. That's an invitation.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Mrs. Goodridge, as I've said, I've been to Fort Mac and I've toured an oil sands project.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. We'll resume.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Which one? Which oil sands company did you tour?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I'm not actually—