Evidence of meeting #67 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I was not there at the time. I cannot answer that question.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes, please.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to go back to your early analysis of the donation. You would have been seized with it. Obviously, you took great steps in your leadership role.
In your estimation, what was the relationship between Mr. Zhang Bin and the government of the People's Republic of China?
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
What I noticed was that he was the chair of the board of that association based in China. That association had a relationship with the government. He was the chair of that association, and he was one of the donors. I don't have more information than that.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Is it fair to say the association was an extension of the People's Republic of China—of the government?
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
There was a very strong proximity. I don't know if I would say “extension”, but it was clearly under the guidance. I think the expression used on their website was “under the guidance” of the government.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The same association was the one providing the direction on the details of the donation. Is that correct?
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
That's correct.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
One could infer, then, through that line of reasoning, that there would have been guidance from the People's Republic of China on dealing with the matters related to this particular donation.
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Possibly. That's why I wanted to have an unrestricted forensic audit. It was to understand what happened before I became president and CEO of the foundation.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Is there anything you would have done differently, knowing what you know now?
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Yes.
At the time, when we gave back the money to the donors, I was under the impression that there was not this relationship with the Government of China or that association, nor all of these emails. The cheque we sent back was signed by the two board members—Peter Sahlas and Bruce McNiven. I believed this was the right course of action at the time. It was later on that I found out about these different emails.
The more research I did, the more I wanted to do an investigation and not touch the money anymore. To have that unrestricted forensic audit was very important to me.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Ms. Fournier, I want to give you the opportunity, subsequent to this meeting.... There's going to be further testimony. There are probably going to be some responses to the statements you've made. I want to invite you, under parliamentary privilege, to have the opportunity to reply to this committee in writing should you feel that you are being maligned or misrepresented in any way.
I just wanted to extend that invitation to you.
10:35 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I really appreciate what you mentioned right now, because I did not ask to come to testify. I am doing it in good faith, and I believe in transparency and in democracy. I really did make sure that nothing I was saying to you today could be used against me, and this privilege is not just in theory, but in practice, so I don't receive any intimidation or attempts to attack my reputation.
I want to mention that I was just renewed for two more years with an impeccable record at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. I surely hope that there is not an attempt to try to say something else about me.
My entire career has been built around my reputation for integrity and transparency.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
NDP
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
It was tabled earlier, yes. My understanding is that the motion has been distributed in both official languages to all members of the committee.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
We did agree to table that earlier, so I will take it up.
Before I do, Mr. Green, I want to say thank you to our witness today for coming forward.
I want to reiterate what Mr. Green said. You came here today under summons from this committee, Madame Fournier. If at any point you feel intimidated or threatened in any way, I want you to advise me, as the chair, through the clerk, of any of those circumstances.
I'm also aware, as well, because...I saw a tweet about trying to malign your character in your role as the president and CEO of a foundation. It was floated out there by the media, for anybody who felt that you had maligned or not conducted yourself in any way in a professional manner to contact them. I was actually quite disturbed that this would happen.
I want the assurance to be made to you that this committee will do everything it can not just to protect your privilege, but also to ensure that your character is maintained and that you're not intimidated as a result of your appearance today. I want to make that very clear, as chair.
Thank you.
10:40 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Madame Fournier.
I'm going to dismiss you now. I appreciate, on behalf of the committee and on behalf of Canadians, your being here today and your stellar work in all aspects of your life.
Thank you.
10:40 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I move:
That the committee order the production of all documents in the possession of Pascale Fournier related to the matters currently being studied by this committee, and specifically concerning certain donations received by the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the committee within two business days and shall be circulated to the members of the committee, on a confidential or in camera basis, once they have been translated into both official languages.