Evidence of meeting #67 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
So there was no interference in the workings of the foundation after you arrived as the CEO. Is that right?
10:25 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
From 2018 onward, I can assure you that the proceedings of the committee under the chair and members were never interfered with.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
Can you tell us today whether any members of the board of directors, during the time you were heading the foundation, exerted pressure to take part in political events? Were you invited to take part in political events?
10:25 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
No. I never received any invitations of that kind and never took part in any political events.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Your speaking time is up. Thank you, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.
We'll go to Mr. Villemure next, but I will advise the committee that, in light of information from Mr. Alexandre Trudeau about his desire to come and speak publicly to a committee, I had the clerk send out an invitation to Mr. Trudeau for next Wednesday. We have set aside time from 4:30 to 6:30 next Wednesday afternoon.
Madam Clerk, we have confirmed the time for a committee meeting, given the availability of Mr. Trudeau.
I want to advise the committee that I took my prerogative as chair to take him up on his offer to come and speak to a parliamentary committee.
Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
10:25 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am proposing the following motion.
That, in the context of its study on foreign interference and threats to the integrity of democratic institutions, intellectual property and the Canadian state, the committee calls Edward Johnson, founding member of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation, for a 2-hour session as soon as possible.
The motion was sent to the clerk in both official languages.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure. The motion is in order.
Madam Clerk, did you receive the motion? Can you confirm that it was sent to all members in both official languages?
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Yes.
I asked Ms. Fournier a question earlier. Since the start, we have spoken about several members of the board of directors. The three persons who remained were named, and there has been discussion of two of them, but not much about Mr. Johnson. In view of his presence at the foundation since its establishment, he is a privileged witness, in my view. It would seem to me that he could explain a number of things. For example, why were there no longer any employees in 2017? What was the context in which the donation was made? Why did Mr. Johnson not want to recuse himself, when best ethical practices required that he do so in such a situation to protect himself and the foundation? It strikes me that he is a key witness we should be hearing from as soon as possible.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I haven't received the motion yet. Give me a moment to check my emails.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
It's a very straightforward motion, Mr. Fergus.
Do we have any further discussion on the motion from Mr. Villemure?
I don't see any. Do we have consensus?
(Motion agreed to)
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Ms. Fournier, You spoke about Mr. Johnson and his presence with the foundation from the outset. What do you believe his ties to the Trudeau family are ?
10:30 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I know that Mr. Johnson worked for Pierre Elliott Trudeau as his executive assistant. He knew his children, Alexandre, Justin and Michel, and spent a lot of time with them over the years when they were younger. He went on canoe trips with them. He told me all kinds of stories and about the strong ties he developed with them over the years. He has remained very close to the Trudeau family and is extremely fond of them.
10:30 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Would you say that he would take a bullet for them, to use the popular trope?
10:30 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
He's someone I very much enjoyed working with. I wasn't there when he was closest to the family, but I do know that he's still close to them.
10:30 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
You said that when you arrived, there were almost no employees left. Likewise, the board of directors had been renewed around 2017. The board members were already there, but many had left. Why do you think they jumped ship?
10:30 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I can't give you a clear answer. I know that Mr. Morris Rosenberg's departure at the time had been stormy. Several board members left when Mr. Rosenberg departed. When I got there, someone had been appointed by the board of directors to do some crisis management in the foundation's offices for about nine months. Many of the staff had left and in some instances they were involuntary terminations. Indeed, there was almost no one there when I arrived.
10:30 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
For example, Isabelle Hudon, who was on the board of directors and who was close to Justin Trudeau, resigned or left at that time.
10:30 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
I don't think she was on the board, but had been invited. We had…
10:30 a.m.
Former President and Chief Excecutif Officer at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation and Full Professor at the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law, As an Individual
She had been a guest at one of our conferences. I may be wrong, but I don't think she was there at the time.
In 2018, at the beginning of my term, I had pointed out that I wanted to tour the country and promote diversity. I wanted the board members, the scholars, the fellows and the mentors to reflect Canada's population and also be representative of regional, racial and gender diversity, and gender parity. We made sure that people on the board represented diversity at all levels in Canada.
In 2018, an incredible group of highly diverse people arrived, and these are the people who, along with me, resigned on April 10.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you Ms. Fournier and Mr. Villemure.
Madame Fournier, I want to pick up on something that Mr. Villemure said before I go to Mr. Green.
Was Mr. Rosenberg fired from the foundation for his role in the donation?