Evidence of meeting #65 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was population.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
We haven't had sufficient hearings to bring all of us up to the speed Mr. Epp or Mr. Badawey might have.
We don't agree with the concurrence piece, Mel, but we'll call the question and see what the committee would like to do.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
If we're going to have two meetings, the first of the two meetings should probably be for hearing from the U.S. counterparts and others to get the background. Then the second meeting will be with DFO and the Great Lakes Fishery Commission.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
We could agree to a separate hearing from the commission for perhaps one hour, because the story seems to be fairly simple. Then perhaps we could bring the DFO officials in for a second hour. Then, yes, we would go to a second meeting.
Why not maybe think about bringing them both in at the same time and resolve it that way? At least we'll get the foundational stuff that some of us really need in order to appreciate the full extent of this thing.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
If we can agree to two meetings, then we can hash out the appearance order and get an indication from the parties involved as to whether they will come or not. We would include Global Affairs and the U.S. counterparts.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Is everybody all right with that? We'll have two meetings, and we'll hash out who's appearing at which one and whether they're concurrent.
Go ahead, Madame Desbiens.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I'd like to know when the two meetings will be held. Will it be two meetings or one two-hour meeting?
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
We'll probably try to schedule that at our committee business meeting on May 4. That might be a good time to see what the schedule is like and to say which two meetings we're going to allocate for this particular intervention.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
All right. Is everybody okay with it?
I see a thumbs-up from Mr. Bachrach. I'm going to assume everybody else is okay with it because they've been talking about it for the past 20 minutes.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Chair.
My questions are going to be more generalized. They're for Madam Buie.
We've been hearing a lot of testimony in this committee. We've had numerous meetings. Various committees have heard the issue before.
Can you give an opinion on why the industry and why people in the fishery are so suspicious of DFO science? It's almost universal.
Three areas have come down in this report so far. There is the ministry, which should be objective. We've had scientists from various NGOs—arm's-length agencies—testify. However, the fishers who appear before us and the harvesters are not complimentary of the veracity of the science on this issue within DFO.
Can you give me your opinion?
12:35 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do have a very robust advisory committee process. We had the seal summit back in November.
We hear a lot from our stakeholder community about what they're seeing on the water. Oftentimes they are seeing different things—for example, large pools of fish that are currently under moratorium or other things that are different from what our DFO science is reporting on.
From a management perspective, our job is to consider all sources of information. However, in the end, it's the science and the evidence-based outcomes of their science processes that are helping to drive our decision-making around fisheries management. I think we always provide opportunity for industry and other stakeholders to provide their views.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
They do. They tell this committee, but then it doesn't get listened to. That's the testimony they're giving. It does not seem to have any meaningful impact on the decisions that come down.
12:35 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Understood.
In our fisheries management decisions, as I said, we do rely on the empirical evidence-based results from science processes that are peer-reviewed, and we rely on the expertise of not only our science but—
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Are there gaps in your science? Do you acknowledge, sitting before this committee, that your science is 100%, that it gives an accurate, beyond-reproach perspective of the state of the oceans east and west?
12:35 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would say that management is continually evolving. For example, we're looking at ways to incorporate more of an ecosystem-based approach to management.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Has your science failed in the past? Has your science failed on the fishery recommendations?
12:35 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
As I said, our science is always providing the best knowledge at any given point in time to make our decisions.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I know it's a difficult position, but this committee has heard a lot of frustration from harvesters, from indigenous harvesters and from fishers, and that the department is not taking the threat seriously. The substantial growth in reference to the east coast seal herd has the potential to have a very—I won't use the word “catastrophic”—significant impact on some stocks. It already has, and it will on some others that are the lifeblood of rural Atlantic communities.
My question is this. Your notes say, “Currently, there is only a single area where the Department has scientific evidence supporting the negative impact of seal predation”. Where is that?
12:40 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
That's in the southern gulf.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
May 1st, 2023 / 12:40 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It is in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, in what they call the NAFO division 4T.