Government Operations Committee on May 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Minister, we do need to turn over to the next meeting.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

They don't want to hear the results—there you go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You're welcome to provide them in writing if you're able to, Minister. A motion has passed in this committee that if you're going to provide back to us on any requests that you do so within a three-week period.

Minister, thank you very much for joining us.

We're going to suspend for a few minutes as we switch over our witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Welcome back, everyone.

Welcome, Minister Anand. The floor is yours for five minutes, please. Go ahead.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge that the lands on which we are gathered are part of the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

With me today are officials from my department to give you an overview of the 2024‑2025 Main Estimates.

Canadians expect their government to be transparent, and they have the right to know how public funds are spent. Through our financial reports, our government commits to spending taxpayer money transparently, effectively and carefully.

I will raise some of the highlights in the 2024‑2025 Main Estimates, tabled on February 29, 2024.

This year's main estimates present a total of $449 billion in budgetary spending, with $191.6 billion to be voted on. Non-budgetary expenditures of $1.2 billion are also presented, Mr. Chair.

This funding will allow the government to provide many programs and services, as well as transfer payments to other levels of government, to organizations and to people.

Some of the larger voted amounts proposed for organizations in these main estimates include $28.8 billion for National Defence investments, including support for Ukraine and training and equipment for the Canadian Armed Forces; $20.9 billion for Indigenous Services, for programs for indigenous communities and settlements; $8.4 billion for Health Canada, including funding to expand the Canadian dental care plan; and $5.6 billion for CMHC for much-needed housing infrastructure.

I also want to point out that these estimates present additional information on the initiative to refocus government expenditures, announced for the first time in budget 2023. I am pleased to say that the 2024‑2025 Main Estimates set out an amount of $10.5 billion to be redirected from departmental budgets into Canadians’ main priorities over the next three years.

These priorities focus on health and housing. It puts in place an economic plan for our country.

This is part of the savings announced in budgets 2023 and 2024. The fall economic statement last year also outlined our plans for refocused government spending.

The total also includes the refocusing of $500 million that we reported in the supplementary estimates that were tabled last fall. What I mean by this, Mr. Chair, is that what we are doing is looking across government for areas in which we can reduce our spending in certain areas, like third party contracting and executive travel, and refocusing that money toward our government's priorities.

Over the next four years, based on historical rates of attrition, this will achieve the remaining savings of $4.2 billion over four years, starting in 2025-26, and $1.3 billion ongoing toward the refocusing government spending target.

TBS officials, some of whom are here with me today, are working on the methodology to determine these savings, and more details on the implementation of phase two will be available soon.

I want to be clear. The goal of this exercise is about spending smarter so that we're investing in the areas and programs that matter most to Canadians and the country. Our government will continue to provide Canadians and MPs with the details of this initiative through the departmental plans and departmental results reports. Mr. Chair, I know you have read through many of those copiously over the years.

In conclusion, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak about these main estimates. My officials and I would now be more than pleased to take your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Wonderful. Thank you for being on time. I will mention to Minister Duclos that he should learn from you how to do the opening on time.

We'll start with Mrs. Kusie, please, for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When you tabled the main estimates, you stated that your government's ministers are acting like all other Canadians in "examining their own pocketbooks." That was your quote.

Do you believe Canadians have examined their pocketbooks and decided they can spend more, the way you have? Is that really what you think? You think they are examining their pocketbooks and making the decision to spend more—and can spend more—as you are. I don't think they are.

What would you like to tell Canadians on that, please?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question.

The intention of that point was to say that this is a time when we need to be prudent with our spending. At the Treasury Board of Canada, our role is to oversee government spending and to ensure that we undertake a risk analysis of that spending at all times—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Being prudent with your spending, Minister—

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

When we table the main estimates, that is the goal.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

How do you think the younger generation looks at you and your government right now, with a $39.8-billion deficit in the current budget? Do you really think they believe you are being prudent with a $39.8-billion deficit that not only this generation, but the next generation is going to have to pay off?

Do you really think that's being prudent, Minister?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, we have the the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 and a AAA credit rating. At the same time, we are maintaining that fiscally prudent track. We are also providing supports to Canadians through dental care, pharmacare, contraception for women so that they can make their own choices about their bodies.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Minister, Canadians, when they're standing in line at the food bank, don't care about the debt-to-GDP ratio. They don't care about that. They just care that their tummies are empty and want food on the table to feed their families.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Unlike the Conservative government before us—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

No, Minister, the government is currently spending more on debt servicing costs than it is on health transfer payments—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Minister, sorry, there is a point of order. I will stop the clock.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, go ahead, please.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'm just trying to respond to the question.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Yes.

Mr. Chair, I just want us to take into consideration our translators.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's not a point of order.

I will let you know—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

It is a point of order because—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Sorry, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

When the translators have an issue they will advise the clerk and the clerk will advise me. We will then interrupt.

I appreciate your point.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'm just worried about their health and well-being.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

I have ruled, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I see my MP colleague raising her voice. I'm just simply asking that we respect the translators.