Evidence of meeting #125 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Annie Boudreau  Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Francis Trudel  Associate Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Doug Ettinger  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Post Corporation
Manon Fortin  Chief Operating Officer, Canada Post Corporation

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 125 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, which even Minister Duclos recognizes as the mighty OGGO, the only committee that matters.

Very quickly, regarding your earpieces, as always, please keep them away from the microphones, especially when not in use. There is a card provided for every MP. Please read that and follow along in order to protect our very valued interpreters.

Colleagues, today we have Minister Duclos with us. We'll go through our rounds, and then we will welcome the other minister. Canada Post will be with us for the last hour and a half or hour and 45 minutes, and then we have to get to the estimates votes before we finish up. I'm hoping we can get to the estimates votes at about 8:10. We'll see where we are in the rounds.

We'll start with Minister Duclos for five minutes.

Welcome back, Minister. The floor is yours.

May 29th, 2024 / 4:30 p.m.

Québec Québec

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos LiberalMinister of Public Services and Procurement

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I’m very pleased to be with you here today. Thank you for the lovely invitation to participate in your meeting.

Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

With me today are officials in important positions, including Ms. Arianne Reza, deputy minister of Public Works and Government Services, and Mr. Scott Jones, president of Shared Services Canada.

Also with me today is Mr. Matthew Tapscott, executive vice president and chief financial officer of Canada Lands Company Limited. This is a very important company in terms of investments in affordable housing. We may get to that issue today.

With me as well is Ms. Rindala El‑Hage, vice president of finance and controller of the Canada Post Corporation, as well as many other officials who are here to serve you.

Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, is seeking a net increase of $448.6 million, bringing the total opening net budget to approximately $4.8 billion for 2024‑2025.

Of that amount, more than $3.3 billion will be spent on property and infrastructure activities, including major rehabilitation projects across Canada.

For Shared Services Canada, or SSC, reference levels will decrease by $112 million for a total of $2.48 billion.

As you know, SSC is working with central agencies, partners and clients to build an efficient and modern information technology framework, with defined and optimized processes, as well as consolidated systems and networks.

PSPC and SSC have many priorities, including continued efforts to modernize procurement with a focus on simplifying processes and increasing support for small and medium-sized enterprises.

As this committee is well aware, the government is also reducing spending on professional services by 15%, and that work is well under way. For the remaining contracts in this area, we are improving oversight and integrity. That is why PSPC has made important process changes to ensure decision-making and controls associated with professional service contracts uphold the highest procurement standards.

Earlier this year, along with the President of the Treasury Board, I announced a series of new actions to strengthen the government's procurement and integrity regimes. I am pleased to update the committee on PSPC's new office of supplier integrity and compliance, which will formally come into being in just two days, on May 31. This will allow us to better respond to supplier misconduct and unethical behaviour.

Of course, service delivery remains one of our priorities.

At PSPC, that includes resolving outstanding pay issues for public servants and advancing work on the next generation pay and human resources system. Federal public service employees deserve to be paid correctly and on time.

At SSC, all efforts are made to ensure that departments are equipped with the digital tools they need to deliver programs and benefits to eligible Canadians. Furthermore, SSC will continue providing the technological services that allow public servants to work collaboratively and seamlessly across government.

Of course, one of our top priorities is to continue to support our government's response to the housing crisis. We've already taken action to accelerate the process of turning federal lands and buildings into housing. With our new public lands for homes plan, which we announced in budget 2024, we have the potential to unlock hundreds of thousands of new, affordable homes.

PSPC is leading on this plan, and work is already well under way. The plan includes identifying and even acquiring underutilized public lands and leasing them out to ensure they are set aside for the building of affordable homes that Canadians need.

Mr. Chair, we also continue to work in close collaboration with key partners to implement the Canadian dental care plan, which is already making oral health care more affordable and more accessible to middle-class and lower-income Canadians.

Since the launch of the Canadian Dental Care Plan, more than two million seniors successfully completed their application. To date, more than 120,000 claims have been processed. Beyond the numbers, seniors can now take better care of their oral health and respond to dental needs neglected too often, for too long.

Mr. Chair, those are but a few examples of important ongoing work.

I am now happy to answer your questions.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Minister.

We'll start with Mrs. Block for six minutes, please.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Through you, I will welcome the minister and ask the following question.

Minister Duclos, under this Prime Minister and this Liberal government—and, more specifically, you as the former president of the Treasury Board and now the Minister of Public Services and Procurement—we have seen an increase in wasteful spending and corruption in the number of billions of dollars, and dozens of investigations, including by the RCMP.

In fact, your own departmental plan has noted that fraud and other wrongdoing remain a key risk for your department. How much more contracting fraud has been discovered in your department?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

You are noting quite well that this department is key to making the lives of Canadians better and more affordable. That is the focus of this department, PSPC, and Shared Services.

As we do that, as you also note, we need to make sure the process and the processes are rigorous. If there were to be fraud and wrongdoing, they would be first identified and then punished in the proper way.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

Has the RCMP interviewed any government officials in your department?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Well, you would need to ask the RCMP for reliable information. Obviously, the RCMP doesn't respond to political interference and pressure. The right people to ask the question to would be the RCMP.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

But you are aware of the investigations that have been undertaken by the RCMP: Is that correct?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

We are all aware of such investigations and we obviously fully support whatever RCMP efforts need to be supported and—

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

—we are there to help their difficult job.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

In your opening remarks, you mentioned the creation of a new office to address supplier misconduct. What about misconduct within your own department?

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

That is an excellent question.

I will summarize what the Office of Supplier Integrity and Compliance will do.

The Office will increase the number of offences and issues the department can work on, such as corruption, funding terrorism, human trafficking and violating election laws. It will also collect more data and process it more efficiently.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Minister, I am speaking specifically about issues within your own department.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

It is indeed an office that will be able to look into the department's activities, but also beyond and also in collaboration with other governments and other countries, which is something that is not possible at this time.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

Are you aware that deputy ministers across different departments have suspended public servants who worked on ArriveCAN that are not agreeing with their narrative?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

That's an important question to ask those departments, ministers and deputy ministers, as we are all.... We all follow the news. We are indeed aware of such events.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Is there any responsibility on the part of your office to weigh in on these matters or to pay particular attention to what is happening across the public service?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

All departments, all ministers and all deputy ministers have the same obligation. If there is misconduct to be found within their public service, they are obligated—and we expect them to do that—to look into the matters and to punish in whatever appropriate way that ill behaviour.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

We have seen Canada Post running higher deficits year after year as they struggle to make strategic changes to address the changes in the market, yet Canada Post has not had its corporate plan approved since 2019, prior to the pandemic. What has kept your government from approving a new corporate plan for Canada Post?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Canada Post has the responsibility—and it's a difficult one—to deliver services across our country: Its purpose is a service first purpose. It needs to be fairly treating all Canadians regardless of where they live, and in remote and rural areas in particular, something that other organizations and private corporations in particular sometimes are unwilling or unable to do.

We understand that the demand for mail has been falling over the last 20 years, falling by approximately 50%. They also serve more addresses, about three million more addresses in the last 20 years, so that is putting financial pressure on them.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

We are obviously working with them to make sure that they keep meeting their heavy responsibilities while doing this in a financially sustainable manner.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

It has also been reported many times that the government is looking to move on from the Phoenix pay system and that trials are being run at certain departments with the new system, NextGen, I believe. Would you be able to provide this committee with the names of the companies that bid on the contracts for the new system, how they were ranked and which departments they are currently running trials in?

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

It may proceed in two quick phases. First, there is the objective of all of that, which is precisely and obviously the objective of serving public servants and paying them on time and accurately as they serve Canadians through their jobs. As we do that, we also need to consider the next path, which is—as you noted—NextGen.