Government Operations Committee on May 29th, 2024

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Minister, I appreciate the objective. I think we're all aware of what you're trying to accomplish by moving to a new system. However, I'm asking if you would provide me with the names of the companies that bid on the contracts for the new pay system, how they were ranked and which departments they are currently running trials in.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We will do that with great pleasure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I will have to interrupt you, Minister. We are out of time. Perhaps you can provide that in writing to the committee.

Mrs. Atwin, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleagues and to the minister and his team for being with us this afternoon.

It wasn't so long ago that you came to visit me in the riding of Fredericton, and we went to the Stepping Stone Senior Centre. We had a great conversation around dental care. Of course, I know that, according to the 2024-25 departmental plan, the Canadian dental care plan will be a key area of focus for Public Services and Procurement Canada. I'll take my time today to kind of delve into this really important program for Canadians.

Specifically, we were speaking to seniors, and many of them had questions and concerns. You were able to answer those questions for them and really bring assurances because in my home province of New Brunswick, 57% of those over the age of 65 do not have dental insurance.

Could you explain how the Canadian dental care plan will address the needs of vulnerable populations, such as low-income children, seniors and people with disabilities?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a wonderful question, and it was a wonderful visit that we were able to do together.

We heard directly from seniors, something that other members of Parliament may not have heard recently, certainly not the Leader of the Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, who claimed on local radio in my region just a few days ago that this dental care plan didn't exist. He repeated that several times. He was asked about whether he would scrap it, and he said that he couldn't talk about it because it doesn't exist.

Well, there are two million people registered in the dental care plan across Canada, many of them in your own riding. More than 100,000 vulnerable seniors have been able to get care since May 1. That is remarkable.

The reason we don't speak about this is because it's going really well. Obviously, there are some on the other side of the House who would prefer not to speak about it and not to see that it's working, and some are pretending it doesn't exist.

However, for seniors in your riding, Jenica, it makes a great deal of difference. Some of those seniors we met told us that they hadn't been able to visit a dentist or a denturist for years because they didn't have the money to do that.

Now, that is leading, unfortunately, in too many cases, to much worse health outcomes. The longer these seniors have waited, the more difficult, the more costly and the more painful it is for dentists, hygienists and denturists to treat their oral health situations.

It was remarkable to visit those seniors with you, Jenica. I applaud your leadership. You were there before the plan was in place. Seniors were listening to you and asking if it was really going to happen. It is happening, thanks to your leadership and that of many others.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I know that New Brunswick is having a challenge in getting our dentists to sign up. This is something that we'd certainly like to address.

We know that last month Dr. Matthew Moore, former president of the New Brunswick dental association, told CBC that he'd already taken on a lot of the work of answering patient questions.

I think there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there. We're seeing many of our colleagues actually talking down the program, which isn't helping spread the word of what this can actually offer to Canadians across the country.

If you could address the dental association in New Brunswick, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them as far as encouraging their membership to really get on board with this, I think, transformative program?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'd love to be a New Brunswick MP. Unfortunately, I can only be a Quebec MP, so I can talk to you about what I hear in my riding. I've been visiting dentists for the last few weeks. They are surprised at how well it goes. It's simple. It's fast. They get paid in less than two days and sometimes in less than 24 hours. Now their queries are quickly answered.

They are seeing patients they should have been seeing many months and many years ago. Fortunately, these patients now come to their offices. In Quebec, more than 60% of dental providers have now registered.

We know that it's more challenging in other parts of Canada, including in New Brunswick, so I would invite all New Brunswick dentists, hygienists and denturists.... They're all good and well-intentioned, but unfortunately, they've suffered from some of the disinformation that Conservative MPs, in particular, have been spreading over the last few weeks.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm really glad you mentioned the dental hygienists as well because they've really been champions for us in New Brunswick on this program, so I give a shout-out to the incredible independent dental hygienists out there.

Minister, you also mentioned a bit about the health benefits of regular access to dental care, but I'm sure there are also economic benefits to this piece as well.

Could you be more specific about how this can impact individual lives?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Health is health care, and health care is health. Dental health and oral health care are absolutely essential when it comes to looking after your global health. Experts, hygienists and dentists in particular have pointed to the fact that good oral health reduces the risk of diabetes. It reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease. It reduces the risk of generalized infections, and reduces the risk of people not being able.... It increases the risk of cancer as well, and many other things that are connected to the mouth. Our mouth is obviously connected closely to the rest of our body.

Investing in oral health care is a good way to improve overall health. What we're also finding is that, by providing for better oral health of Canadians, we avoid having those Canadians having to go to the emergency department and emergency surgery, which would cost a fortune to the health care system and would make the lives of everyone a lot worse off.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

It's absolutely part of preventative health care, and it certainly could potentially reduce costs down the line as well for our government.

I have 15 seconds left, but I thank you again, Minister, for being here with us today.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, I wonder if the Minister can clarify something.

Did he just testify that the the mouth is connected to the rest of the body?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's not a point of order.

We'll go to Mrs. Vignola for six minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

May I proceed?

Thank you.

Mr. Duclos, Ms. Reza, Mr. Tapscott, Ms. El‑Hage, thank you for being with us.

My first question is on divestment of land and real property to turn it into social housing, which is good news in and of itself. No one is against apple pie.

That said, in the very recent past, it so happens that the government challenged the taxes paid on some of those lands and won in court. I’m thinking here of Chelsea, where taxpayers have to pay several hundred dollars more per year.

Which laws will apply to federal lands and properties transformed into housing, particularly social housing: federal laws or those of Quebec and the Canadian provinces?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That’s a very good question.

You are alluding to the fact that budget 2024 proposes more tools, specifically for the Canada Lands Company, National Defence, Canada Post and my department, Public Services and Procurement Canada, beyond the traditional tool of selling these lands and buildings.

In some cases, selling is the simplest or most useful tool. However, in other cases, it is faster and more useful, especially in the long-term, to retain ownership of these federal lands and buildings and, for example, make them available to nonprofit organizations, municipalities, housing co‑operatives or businesses.

Thanks to emphyteutic leases, for example, these organizations can access these lands and buildings to build the housing we need faster and at a lesser cost.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I will repeat my question. Will federal legislation and regulations, or those of Quebec and the provinces, apply to the lands targeted by these new tools?

For example, will Quebec’s legislation on housing apply?

Will municipal taxes be paid based on the value of built or converted real property? Will the other residents have to pay the difference, if ever the federal government decides again to challenge the role of assessing property?

Who will apply the regulations and take precedence?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

It will be the legislation that normally applies, meaning a combination of municipal, provincial and federal legislation, depending on the case. There may be considerations linked to urban planning, construction regulations or the National Building Code. Lands may be used by a variety of residents or be the object of a variety of partnerships. From a fiscal point of view, obviously, municipal, provincial and federal legislation will apply.

That means upholding a combination of laws, as is already the case, although it’s rather rare, when land or a building is under federal ownership and other organizations benefit from it through the use of appropriate leases.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Can you assure me that the role of assessing real property built on federal land won’t be challenged, as is currently the case in Chelsea? Is that a guarantee that municipalities in Quebec and Canada can’t have?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

What I can assure you of is that everyone will work together. In Canada, and more specifically in Quebec, everyone is concerned about the housing crisis. We must build affordable housing faster and at a lesser cost for families who need it. Everyone is on the same wavelength on the issue, and everyone is being co‑operative. The Canadian government is there to support the government of Quebec. The government of Quebec supports municipalities. We will continue the excellent collaboration we need in Canada in 2024.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In the case of Chelsea, it went all the way to courts of justice, in spite of any collaboration. The quality of this collaboration is, in my opinion, rather ambiguous, but I won’t spend any more time on it. That said, let’s hope that the past is not a guide to the future.

In the budget, funds are requested to improve the Translation Bureau’s capacity. Furthermore, new tools were acquired, specifically GCLingua. That’s good news, because we’re short on interpreters. That said, it leads me to ask the following question: Will interpreters lose their jobs because we’re using GCLingua instead of human beings?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I am very pleased with that question, Ms. Vignola.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 25 seconds.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First, we recognize the needs and challenges in translation and interpretation. Translators and interpreters are also very familiar with these challenges. We are increasingly aware of them, because we are increasingly aware of the importance of interpretation and translation work and practices.

Second, budget 2024 includes significant investments, meaning $35 million, as well as grants to train more students in interpretation and translation.

Finally, we will make the lives of interpreters safer and, in some cases, better, by making tools available to them which they can use depending on the nature of their work and their needs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today. I appreciated your enthusiasm for dental care.

In your response to Ms. Atwin, you very correctly stated that the mouth is part of the body. I would add, more importantly—and here Mr. Genuis took great umbrage to that statement—I think what you were trying to get at is that oral health is integral to people's overall health. When people's teeth are in bad shape, eventually, they can end up in our hospitals and our emergency health system, and they can see a whole suite of really challenging situations.

I want to thank you for your support, but I have to say I am a bit confused, because in 2021, Jack Harris, my former colleague and a wonderful MP from St. John's East, brought forward a motion that read:

That, in the opinion of the House, the government should establish a federal dental care plan as soon as possible for Canadian families earning less than $90,000 per year who are not covered by a dental care plan...

I'm looking here at the voting record, and there's a Mr. Duclos who voted nay to that motion. I'm all for people having a change of heart, seeing the light and enjoying the road to Damascus. I'm just wondering what changed your mind.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Let me start with the partial joke of MP Genuis. That's fine. We can have fun. However, it's a serious matter for many seniors when it comes to feeling the pain that comes with not having good oral health.