Government Operations Committee on June 17th, 2024

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

I have one more quick question.

Sometimes the Liberals criticize your reports because, they say, you haven't factored in the cost of climate change. However, my understanding is that it's because, with or without the carbon tax, Canada will experience consequences from climate change. In other words, the carbon tax doesn't magically wave away the impacts for Canada. It doesn't create a bubble around Canada at all.

Is that correct? Can you confirm that, under both scenarios—with or without a carbon tax—the cost of climate change would still be felt by Canadians?

[Yves Giroux]

I'm not a climate scientist. However, based on the scientific consensus, we need concerted global action for climate change to stop getting worse. Canada acting alone is not sufficient.

That's as much of a confirmation as I can give.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Even with the carbon tax, Canadians will continue to pay the cost of climate change. Is that correct?

[Yves Giroux]

Yes, unless everybody else reduces their emissions significantly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bains, go ahead, please.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, sir, for coming once again to committee.

I wanted to talk a little bit about the spending review and the refocused spending initiative. I think you did talk about the professional services. You said that there are still some in the upcoming budget. You saw that there are still services that are going to be procured or may materialize, and that may or may not change what the outcome is.

Can you talk a little bit about that, just to clarify that?

Then I will have a follow-up question.

[Yves Giroux]

I was referring to consulting services—external consulting services and special services—and to the fact that in these supplementary estimates (A), when combined with the main estimates, so far this year we are at authorities of $19.8 billion, which will be close, assuming there's nothing else, to the more than $21 billion of the previous year. However, there is likely to be also supplementary estimates (B) and (C), which may add further to the consulting services, which would bring the total authorities for the current year close to or maybe even higher than previous years.

These are authorities. It doesn't mean all of it will be spent. We could be in a situation where the total spent is close to or lower than previous years, but it's hard to say at this point. The signs are that it will be very close to last year's.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Okay. Do you know what the change in total planned spending is on professional and special services now compared to this point last year?

[Jill Giswold, Senior Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer]

I don't have that number in front of us, so we could get back to you with that.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

My understanding is that it's approximately $546 million lower now than at the same point in 2023-24. Perhaps you could get that to us if you don't have it on you now.

Can you touch on the standard analysis process that you and your office undertake when developing these reports? Can you share the process for information collection and situational understanding that is taken by you and your office?

[Yves Giroux]

When we produce a report, we gather information usually from government departments and agencies. When we receive a request, for example, we try to clarify the request as much as possible, if it's not already clear. We determine, based on internal discussions and the questions that are submitted to us, the type of information we will need. Then we proceed to discuss with government departments and institutions whether they have that information and what form it's in before sending the information request, so that we can send an appropriately worded information request to the department. Then I proceed with sending a letter to the minister with a copy to the deputy minister or deputy head, and we usually give them a few weeks to respond.

Once we get that information, we analyze it to ensure that it is usable, and from there on we proceed with the analysis and the drafting of the report.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

That process changes depending on the tasks that are undertaken.

How much do you need to pivot or how agile is the team to adapt to the direction of developing these reports?

[Yves Giroux]

It's a very small team of 30 analysts and supervisors, so it has to be able to pivot quickly, and it is very agile. The decision-making process is relatively flat and streamlined given the small number of individuals. Through proper discussions with the requesters and with the departments or federal institutions that provide us with the data, we usually get what we need with a clear understanding of what is available before sending the information request.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to continue discussing the indigenous issue.

We also note, on page 9 of your report, a significant drop for 2024-25. Could you explain this drop in funding?

[Yves Giroux]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that last year we resolved some claims regarding indigenous children who had been improperly placed in foster care and hadn't received the services to which they would have been entitled over multiple previous years. As a result, there was an increase in funding last year to settle these claims. As these claims are not recurring, this has resulted in a decrease for the current year.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

It is more last year's increase that is out of the ordinary. Now it's stabilizing, and it's likely to continue to look like that over the next few years.

[Yves Giroux]

This will probably be the case, unless there are other changes in the portfolio, such as new government initiatives or the expiry of certain programs. We don't know for sure what will happen in the future, but in all likelihood, funding levels are likely to hold steady or increase more modestly.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In other words, we can see that it's down a little from last year, which you told us about, but it's not as low as it was the year before.

Page 10 refers to billions of dollars for the Accelerated Farm Claims Strategy, for the Federal Indian Day School Settlement, and so on. So, there are still settlements and claims regardless, right now.

[Yves Giroux]

Indeed, there are always a rather large number of claims or lawsuits.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Could you provide more details on the millions of dollars being spent to settle historic claims?

[Yves Giroux]

It's a bit of a nebulous point, partly because it's complex, but mostly because there's a lot of confidentiality surrounding this portfolio or envelope, for obvious reasons. The government doesn't want to reveal the amount allocated to each claim or lawsuit, because it doesn't want to weaken its negotiating position. So we have an overall amount for claims and for lawsuit liabilities, but we don't know the details of each of the lawsuits or claims pending against the Crown.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the first questions I had the privilege of asking at public accounts when I was newly elected was on the amount the government owes in settlements.

One of the first questions that I had the ability to ask was on the amount that the government owes in settlements versus what they've actually paid out in treaty settlements. Is that a number that you're aware of?

[Yves Giroux]

I'm not aware of that number because it would require tracking over a number of years—if not decades—the liabilities on the one hand and the amounts that have been settled. I'm not aware of that particular amount.