Government Operations Committee on June 19th, 2024

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's not a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Chair, I do want to start by making a comment with respect to the rules of committee and how committees abide by the rules. Mr. Green and I actually first met at a debate hosted by the Catholic archdiocese of Toronto. I think he'll appreciate, if he did sufficient preparation for that debate, my reading of this section from the great play, A Man for All Seasons about Sir Thomas More, in which William Roper, Thomas More's rather eccentric son-in-law, says to the future saint:

So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

to which Thomas More replies,

Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

to which Roper replies,

Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that.

to which More famously replies,

Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

This is an important reflection, I hope, for members as they consider whether or not it is wise and judicious to show shameless disregard for the long-established rules of parliamentary committees simply in order to achieve the objectives that they want. Members who think that overruling those rules, through constant challenges to the chair, is going to be in their long-term interests are fooling themselves. They should understand that adherence to the rules, be they certainly “Man's laws, not God's,” to quote the play, nonetheless is what preserves us in our roles as members of Parliament and our ability to fulfill our functions.

Minister and Chair, where are we right now? We have Minister Anand, who I don't always agree with, but I certainly appreciate being able to ask questions to; a very busy minister, as all ministers are, who has come before this committee to answer questions for merely one hour, whereas I would have hoped we would have the opportunity to ask questions about the work she is doing as President of the Treasury Board. Instead of allowing those questions to proceed, we have a member of the NDP who is on a crusade to get parliamentary committees to work as little as possible, in case anyone wants to know what the animating causes that Mr. Green is excited about are.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Genuis, let me interrupt for a second, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry. I'll sit back.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Could I just ask him to lower his voice and volume and step away from the microphone? We want to look after our interpreters and translators.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate it, Mr. Kusmierczyk, but as we've said before, if there is an issue, whether it's too close or too loud, or the microphone or earpiece is too close, the translators will let the clerk know. Then we will interrupt.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

We just don't want a repeat of what happened in the House. We're very sensitive to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That was a completely different situation, but I appreciate that, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

If there are any problems with the sound, I'm happy to start from the top.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

No, thanks.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

I have assurance from my francophone colleague here that it's not necessary for me to start from the top, so I'll continue.

Perhaps the people of Hamilton would like to know this: What are the animating causes for Mr. Green? What are the things he gets up in the morning thinking about when he decides which issues to prioritize? I know that when some members come to Parliament, they want to focus on economic issues. Some members come to Parliament and they want to focus on social programs. Some members come to Parliament wanting to focus on foreign policy issues.

When Mr. Green comes to Parliament, he thinks about how he can create a situation in which members of Parliament have to work less. He is going from committee to committee. This isn't even his regular committee. He's not a regular member of OGGO. He is going from committee to committee moving motions designed to reduce the workload of members of Parliament. This is his mission.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's what you do.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is what has brought him here. He has come to Parliament in order to reduce the workload of members of Parliament. He is putting forward motions at committee saying that whatever happens, whatever the circumstances, chairs cannot continue—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm going to interrupt for a second. I'm hearing lots of chatter back and forth.

Mr. Genuis has the floor. Can we just leave that with him, please?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

His motions are proposing that whatever happens this summer, whatever the circumstances, committees cannot be brought back to do their jobs over the summer. I can tell you that I think Canadians would expect something very different. Canadians would like to see members of Parliament working hard through the summer.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible—Editor] constituencies.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, going to constituency events, but also being prepared—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you for giving me the floor.

I find it extremely offensive to hear one MP say that another MP wants to work less, when the latter specifically says that part of our work is done in our constituencies and that that's what summer is for. I don't work less in my riding—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate that, Ms. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I find it insulting to be told that, when I'm in my constituency, I'm not working. My constituents are important, as are yours, and it's not less work. It's just as much work, if not more. You all know that. There's no way I'm going to let anyone claim that I don't work in the summer.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate your point. It's not a point of order, but we do appreciate the point.

Mr. Genuis.