Government Operations Committee on June 19th, 2024

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I do recall what Madam Vignola suggested. I recall that conversation, and we're happy to support her.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but the conversation in April, is that what you're referring to?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Again, we're ready to support Madame Vignola in terms of her instruction here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I think, as I suggested, there would be no subcommittee. I'm hearing that you need some time to go over all these documents, and then either you or someone else will submit a new motion come September. Is that fair?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're in agreement.

There's one other small thing. I just mentioned Mr. Anderson. I just want to get everyone's official approval. As we said, we agreed we would have the analysts write the Canada Post report and we would table it immediately in September. That's not going to happen now. I got a text from Mr. Bachrach. He's fine. We'll wait until we're back. We'll hear a couple of other witnesses: one we weren't able to get into contact with for today, and Mr. Anderson. If everyone's fine, we will do that instead of writing the report over the summer, and we'll write it in September or October. Are we fine with that, everyone?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're going to suspend to bring in Minister Anand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Welcome back to OGGO.

Minister Anand, welcome back.

Mr. Matthews, welcome back to OGGO. I think this is the 18th department from which you've been with us at OGGO.

Minister Anand, the floor is yours for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I begin I'd like to acknowledge that the lands on which we are gathered are part of the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

I'm joined today by officials from my department to give you an overview of the Supplementary Estimates (A) 2024–2025.

Supplementary estimates (A) present a total of $12.7 billion in incremental budgetary spending, which reflects $11.2 billion to be voted on and a $1.5-billion increase in forecast statutory expenditures.

I'd like to highlight three requests in particular. First, no relationship is more important to Canada than that with indigenous peoples. Part of that relationship is righting the wrongs of the past. The Department of Indigenous Services is asking for $2.2 billion. We also understand the need to protect newcomers and provide them with much-needed support services. To that end, Citizenship and Immigration is requesting $951.5 million.

Last of all, in support of the government's effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, the Department of Transport is seeking $604.9 million to provide purchase incentives for zero-emissions vehicles. This top-up funding was announced in budget 2024 to help Canadians make the shift to cleaner, zero-emissions vehicles.

In total, approximately $1.6 billion of the funding in these supplementary estimates (A) is for initiatives included in this year's budget.

The other funds announced in the 2024 budget will be presented in future budget documents.

Before concluding, I also wanted to talk about a few other recent initiatives and updates. First, the government has reached an agreement in principle with the Public Service Alliance of Canada for the border services group. Once ratified, this agreement will apply to some 11,000 members of the Public Service Alliance of Canada. This demonstrates that the best deals are made at the bargaining table.

Then, on May 22, I launched the Government of Canada's first-ever Enterprise Cyber Security Strategy. This outlines a proactive, whole-of-government approach that aims to protect government systems, safeguard Canadians' information and strengthen the resilience of digital government.

Also on May 29, the Treasury Board Secretariat announced measures to strengthen managerial accountability by adding mandatory procedures when procuring professional services.

Finally, on June 13, I announced that the government will introduce important legislation this fall to extend early retirement eligibility to front line public servants who help keep Canadians safe. The Government of Canada is committed to supporting these public servants. The proposed retirement benefits would apply to several occupational groups, such as firefighters, paramedics, correctional service officers, parliamentary protection officers and search and rescue technicians.

Thank you for your time. The officials accompanying me and I will now be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

We'll start with Mrs. Kusie for six minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for your appearance here today.

Minister, would you agree that your government has found itself in a debt crisis?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I do not agree with that statement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry; wait one moment. We're having a translation issue.

Go ahead.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Minister, would you agree that your government has found itself in a debt crisis?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I do not agree with that statement, no. We have the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 and a AAA credit rating by an independent rating organization. The Bank of Canada is lowering interest rates because of our sound fiscal position.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Would you agree that it's a problem that the government paid more on servicing debt than what was paid in health care?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I believe that the very heart of our democracy is about helping the most vulnerable in our country. We have pharmacare, dental care, the Canada child benefit, $10-a-day child care and supports for seniors. Those are examples of the ways you help the most vulnerable in our country, and that is exactly what our government is doing.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Well, it appears to me that all new spending by your government could have been covered by the amount that your government has, in fact, serviced the debt with, but your government seems to have decided that the only way to solve your debt crisis is to increase the capital gains inclusion rate.

Do you not think it would be more effective if you simply created a plan to enforce decreases in spending?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I would like to say that there is a philosophical difference between the party of my honourable colleague and our party in the government's role. We believe in helping the most vulnerable in our country and doing that in a fiscally responsible way. At the same time, at the Treasury Board of Canada, I have led a spending review that is on track to find $15 billion over five years and $4.8 billion every year thereafter.

We do believe in fiscal prudence. We also believe in helping the most vulnerable in our country.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yet your new spending amount this year is three and a half times the amount that you are attempting to find in this single fiscal year alone.

Minister, I'm afraid I disagree with you relative to your position about your government having a debt crisis. I think your government absolutely has a debt crisis, and I think it's evident by the fact that your Prime Minister has spent more than any other Prime Minister in history.

In fact, your government has spent so much that you had to bring in this job-killing tax. This is a tax that affects Canadians far beyond what your Prime Minister has claimed, what your Deputy Prime Minister has claimed and, I believe, what you're claiming here today. It hurts farmers, health care workers and small businesses. I know that the Deputy Prime Minister has said that this will only affect 0.13%.

Given that confident statement by the Deputy Prime Minister, will you, as the President of the Treasury Board, the individual who's responsible for all of the spending, since I do believe this is a spending problem that has brought your government to bring in this job-killing tax, commit today, on behalf of your government, to bring an amendment to the capital gains tax ensuring that the 99.87% of Canadians that your government says are not affected by this tax will not be impacted.

Will you make that commitment to bring in that amendment today?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I will not be making an amendment suggestion relating to our government's attempt to ensure tax fairness for our country and to ensure that we are helping the most vulnerable. In fact, I would encourage my honourable colleague, if you truly care about the most vulnerable in our country, to vote in favour of items like dental care for all, child care benefits and pharmacare. Those are initiatives that will help Canadian families and, in fact, have enabled 85% of women between the ages of 25 and 45 to join the workforce postpandemic. Making the tax system fairer for all generations is a priority for our government, and we will continue to execute on that priority.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you for that, Minister.

Minister, if you will not listen to me, will you possibly consider the words of your predecessor, the Honourable Scott Brison, who, of course, sat in your seat? He is very esteemed and recently referred to the higher taxation and bigger government that you and your government have created as a "socialist bafflegab" and that it reflects the sort of advice offered to ministers who don't know any better.

Would you promise to the committee today that you will consider the words of your predecessor, please?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

What I will continue to do in this position and any other is ensure that I am representing my constituents, as well as serving the people of Canada in my role as the Treasury Board president. That means executing on our government's responsibilities and prudently managing the public purse. We will continue to do this with initiatives like the refocusing government spending initiative that I mentioned earlier.

Again, there is a philosophical difference between the party opposite and our government, and our government will continue to stand up for Canadians, Canadian families and Canadian workers, as well as senior citizens.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I agree. There is a philosophical difference, Minister.

You will not commit on behalf of your government. You will not listen to your predecessors. However, will you commit today that you will include in your platform, in your leadership bid as you attempt to be the leader of your party, that you will include an exemption for these individuals I've mentioned with regard to the capital gains tax? Will you commit to that today?