Health Committee on June 17th, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

That's great. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps I'll try one final time, Minister. I'll say it slowly again, because you're struggling, I know.

Did the government or Health Canada, which is part of the government, complete an analysis on this government-implemented capital gains tax hike before implementing the change? If so, could you table it with the committee, please?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Well, insulting me isn't going to help ameliorate the answer.

The answer is that, yes, we've looked at it, and it was very clear that a nurse shouldn't be paying a higher marginal tax rate than a multi-millionaire, and asking folks who've done exceptionally well in capital gains over the last number of years to pay a little more so that we can have a healthy, stable health system, I think, makes a good deal of sense.

I understand your ideological opposition to it, but personally insulting me doesn't improve your argument.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Colleagues, we have 14 minutes before the vote. Can I suggest that we do the next round and then suspend? That would be one six-minute turn for the Liberals. Is everybody okay with that?

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Let's do two rounds. We can all vote here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Well, okay. We'll have one, and then I'll come back to you.

We have Ms. Kayabaga up next for six minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also would like to thank the minister for taking the time to answer the questions of our committee.

Minister, I just want to ask you this. The Conservatives continue to vote against funding or initiatives that help actual Canadians, and then they turn around and state that we're not doing enough for the health care system and the workers. Could you elaborate on the past year with respect to the bilateral Working Together and Aging with Dignity agreements and the work that you've been doing with the provinces and territories to work toward the assured health priorities of expanding health services and modernizing health care systems across Canada?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think Canadians have an expectation, and I see it, frankly. I had a meeting last week with Adriana LaGrange. We have different political views, but we're able to have civil conversations in which we are solutions-focused. I think that's where Canadians expect us to be, particularly on health.

Even in the House, the work that was done on dental care or pharmacare across partisan lines matters, working with New Democrats to find common ground to make material improvements to the conditions of Canadians' health.

Frankly, googling what's wrong in the world and parroting it adds nothing. It is an act neither of courage nor of intelligence to reflect what's not working in the world. What require work and courage are solutions.

The only time in the House when the Conservatives have ever asked about health care was when we were asking for the wealthiest in this country to make a small additional contribution. I think it's important to recognize that in the last five years, capital gains and capital wealth have expanded vastly.

I don't hear the Conservatives asking about how we improve the wages of a personal support care worker. I don't hear the Conservatives talking about the wages and working conditions of a nurse. However, when it comes to somebody who is making more than $250,000 a year and the fact that they're going to go from 50% tax off to one-third tax off over $250,000, suddenly they're interested. I think that is concerning. It's a difference, frankly, in philosophy and where I think we need to be spending our attention.

On health workforce issues, what's going to get us to a point of coming out of the difficult situation we were in during COVID and into a circumstance whereby we are able to stabilize our health workforce is the $200 billion in investments we've made with the provinces and territories in those 26 agreements. It is accelerating the support for internationally educated health professionals. It is opening medical residency spots, reducing administration and working collaboratively with provinces, not seeking out fights or partisan differences to put things on social media, but instead finding common ground and solutions.

The thing that frustrates me about the Conservatives is there are no solutions. There's what they would cut. There's what they wouldn't do. They criticize the challenges going on in the world, but when it comes to solutions and practical things that Canadians can see they would do to improve the health care system, there's nothing there.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

You touched on the PSWs. In this year's supplementary estimates, there was funding toward improving the working conditions for PSWs so that they can continue to support the critical role of providing care for Canadians.

Can you elaborate on that and tell us a bit about the challenges we're aiming to address?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Absolutely. That's a critical question.

We saw, particularly in the pandemic but even today, the work that personal support workers do day in and day out in our health care system. It's heroic. They're up against incredibly difficult circumstances and step in in ways that are absolutely critical to our health system. It's fair that they get a strong living wage. The conversations I've been having with the provinces and territories to make sure we do that collaboratively are extremely important.

The money that is earmarked here will allow us to sign those agreements and be able to announce, in every province and territory, a really important improvement not only to their wage, but to their living conditions. It's fundamentally important that the people who are taking care of people be afforded the support that they need, both in the system and in their salaries, which is why we have to guard against the types of cuts that are being contemplated by the Conservatives.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Knowing that you have to collaborate with the provinces and territories to make sure that we're actually able to support PSWs across Canada, can you talk about the coordinated approach and how you're going to ensure that happens? What are you looking to see in those collaborations with the provinces and territories?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

In the first order, it has to be built on mutual respect for jurisdiction, the need to find common goals and to work together. When I talk to Canadians, it doesn't matter where they are, but they want to know how their governments are working together, how we're setting aside differences and finding solutions and how we're reaching across the aisle to find a way to smooth out differences rather than just insult or criticize.

That is what's characterized all of our discussions. We just met as health ministers about a month ago. It simply doesn't matter what party they're with. I can have a very constructive conversation in Saskatchewan with Everett Hindley, or I could talk to Bruce Fitch in New Brunswick or Adrian Dix in British Columbia. It doesn't matter that they're in different parties. They understand there's that expectation of us, particularly in health.

With a spirit of co-operation and recognizing that we have to put the health of Canadians first, it's exactly why we've been able to sign so many agreements successfully and why we've been able to navigate many of the challenging issues with respect to jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

There are seven minutes until the vote. Do you wish to continue, or do you wish to suspend? We need unanimous consent to continue.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We have unanimous consent to continue.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, minister.

Following my study on the need for a breast implant registry and for Health Canada to recognize breast implant illness, you said in a letter that the committee would be created in due course.

When is due course?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The committee will be set up as quickly as possible. It isn't about how quickly I can act, but about the speed of our system.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What has been done since your letter? You responded on time, but only just, even though we unanimously felt that it was important to look into the matter and to set up this committee quickly.

What have you done since you gave your answer?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Especially when dealing with such a sensitive matter, we must follow the science and data and ensure that all decisions are made on this basis. For this reason, I want to make a decision as quickly as possible. However, I don't want to sacrifice the integrity of the decision‑making process.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

When is due course? It obviously isn't now. You don't yet know for sure that our report is based on a scientific perspective. Read the report again, minister.

You said that you would take the recommendation on the recognition of breast implant illness into account. Where do things stand in your reflection process?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We'll keep working with all the partners involved and the scientific community to find solutions.

I'm more than willing to work directly with you on this matter. We share the same goal. I would like to get this done as quickly as possible, but we must follow the science.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

However, the American Food and Drug Administration, or FDA, has recognized this for a few years now. I don't know what more you need. The recommendations and a report were adopted unanimously here. I imagine that you'll speed up your reflection process.

I have a second question for you. A number of issues have come up with the Cannabis Act. An expert panel has made some recommendations. One recommendation called for Health Canada to limit the number of registrations for personal or designated cannabis production, because it became apparent that far too many licences had been issued.

Another recommendation called for Health Canada to further scrutinize health care professionals who authorize high daily amounts and to use its regulatory authorities to refuse or revoke applications deemed to pose a risk to public health or safety.

Health Canada must do its job. What do you make of these recommendations?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

First, the good news about the first recommendation is that the illegal market has shrunk enormously. Crucially, around 70% of the cannabis market is currently legal. Of course, the report contains many recommendations and we'll be following up on them. Your comments also matter.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I'm not talking about the illegal market.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We'll be responding to this matter shortly.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I'm not talking about the illegal market. I'm talking about licences issued too permissively for medical purposes. That's the key issue.

I have another question about this topic. The expert panel also made the following recommendation:

Health Canada should revise packaging and labelling rules to allow the use of QR codes on product labels to convey factual information to [cannabis] consumers, within the constraints of what is currently permitted on labels or in cannabis promotions.

Do you find this recommendation useful?