Health Committee on June 17th, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I reject the premise of that question. I don't think it's true or accurate, and I can walk through the tax advantages that continue to remain for doctors, which are very significant, and that asking for a more just tax system is not the menace to our health care system. Your cuts, sir, are. The cuts that you wish to impose upon our health care system are a clear and present threat to our being able to ensure that people have the health care they need.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You know, Minister, the fascinating thing is that you keep talking about cuts, but what I keep talking about is the tax changes, the tax hikes that you are promoting for health care. Did your government complete an analysis on the tax hikes before implementing the change?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Asking those who are making more than $250,000 from capital gains—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

That's not what I asked you. I said, did you complete an analysis?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I don't agree. Look, I'm not here to play your bizarre game.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

This is not a game—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm here to try to answer questions rooted in reality.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, if you think that—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

If you want to issue a press release with your thoughts, I welcome it.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

—Canadians not having a physician is a game, then you're in the wrong job. It's sad.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think that cutting dental care, cutting pharmacare and cuts to health care—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

So I guess the question today is, Minister—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—are the things that are menacing our health care system. Asking for a more equitable tax system—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Are you really going to just never answer any questions? Is that your plan?

The question really is this: Did your government complete an analysis on the tax increases before you implemented the change? Yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think the analysis of the tax changes demonstrates very clearly that we're asking those who have made an extraordinary amount of money through capital gains and have had an incredible last five years to pay a little more—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

So, Minister, the question is—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—so that a nurse isn't paying a higher marginal tax rate than somebody else.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, the question is this: Did your government complete an analysis on the tax change, yes or no? And if you did—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I've answered that question. There was, absolutely, an analysis done to make sure that this is more equitable and more fair.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

If you did, then please table it with the committee. I'd love to see it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We have a point of order from Ms. Kayabaga.

Go ahead.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you so much.

First, I just want to say that I could barely hear folks in the room. If they can increase the sound volume, it would be great. My volume is set pretty high.

I'm calling a point of order because the minister is here to answer questions. If he is asked questions, give him time to answer questions, and don't speak over him. It's really hard to hear what they're saying when they're speaking over each other like that.

If he's asked a question, I would say that it would be great for us to hear the answer as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Kayabaga.

What we try to do here is allow the person answering the question to have as much time to answer it as was spent posing the question. We've come to learn that that's exceptionally difficult, but it's also the fairest way we can do it.

Thank you for that.

Mr. Doherty, do you have something you want to say on the point of order?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I only want to say, Mr. Chair and our colleagues who are in there, that you're coming through crystal clear on my end. The volume is loud enough, and it's very clear, so the issue might be on Ms. Kayabaga's end.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

It could be two people talking at once, as well.

Dr. Ellis, you have 25 seconds left for the question and the answer. You have the floor.