Evidence of meeting #124 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was answer.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Eric Costen  Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Jennifer Saxe  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Controlled Substances and Cannabis Branch, Department of Health
Nancy Hamzawi  Executive Vice-President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Aimée Belmore

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I say that if you're talking to a nurse, and you say to a nurse that a doctor will continue to be able to have a tax-sheltered vehicle to allow their gains to multiply upon themselves without taxation, and that when they pull money out, it will be taxed at a preferential rate, that is still a major advantage. I think we have to be able to look into the eyes of personal support workers and nurses and have a just health care system—

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

Minister, I'm going to give you one more opportunity.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

—and that's important.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

Is there evidence, and did you provide any kind of analysis as to how many doctors would leave as a result of this policy change, yes or no? If so, table it with the committee.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I just stated very clearly that your ideological belief doesn't conjure into reality something that you want it to. Having a more equitable tax system is not a menace to our health care system. Cuts are. The deep cuts that you want to impose on our health system will menace our health system. That is exactly the thing that we are most concerned about.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

Thank you, Minister.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

I do not agree that changes to have an equitable health system will menace our health system.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

Thank you, Minister. The menace to our health system is moving forward with policy changes without actually doing any impact analysis as to whether it's going to impact the doctor shortage crisis that we already have in our country. I truly do not understand how this wasn't something that you would have demanded Health Canada move forward with, but clearly it's something that you're wanting to do.

You claim that there is something.... Did you do it by province? Did you do it by territory? Is it all based on your beliefs?

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

Again, anybody who has made capital gains over the last five years has done extraordinarily well. Asking people who made a bit more to pay some of those extraordinary capital gains so that we can have a health system, so that we can pay nurses, so that we can pay personal support workers, I think, is fair and makes sense. I understand your ideological objection against asking those who—

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

Minister, do you know what's not fair?

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

—make the most to pay a little more, but I don't share it. I don't know what more to say to you other than that you have a different position from mine.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Mrs. Goodridge, that is your time; and I understand, Minister, that that is your time, so thank you so much for being with us. We wish that the circumstances were such that you could stay longer, and I think you probably do too. Once again, thanks for being with us.

We're going to suspend, colleagues, while the minister takes his leave and the next minister takes her place.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

Mr. Chair, may I just read one thing into the record in fairness to the question that was asked—

5 p.m.

Conservative

Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB

No—point of order.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON

—by Mr. Thériault on the QR code issue? Yes, we are moving forward with that. I can say that publicly. It will be in the next couple of weeks.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you. We are suspended.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I call the meeting back to order.

I'd like to welcome our second panel of witnesses. We have with us this evening the Honourable Ya'ara Saks, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions. With her, representing the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, is Dr. Samuel Weiss, scientific director, Institute of Neurosciences, Mental Health and Addiction. Dr. Weiss is with us by video conference.

For the Department of Health, Eric Costen, acting deputy minister, is still here. We also have Michelle Boudreau, associate assistant deputy minister, health policy branch; and Jennifer Saxe, associate assistant deputy minister, controlled substances and cannabis branch.

Also in the room, representing the Public Health Agency of Canada, are Nancy Hamzawi, executive vice-president, and Michael Collins, vice-president, health promotion and chronic disease prevention branch. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for being with us.

Welcome to the committee, Minister Saks. You have five minutes for your opening statement.

June 17th, 2024 / 5:05 p.m.

York Centre Ontario

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks LiberalMinister of Mental Health and Addictions

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members. It is lovely to be back with you again at the HESA committee.

Since being named minister, and even prior to that time, my priority has been to ensure that Canadians have access to the mental health and substance use services they need, both when they need them and where they need them.

In recent weeks, I've been meeting with young people and their families across the country to talk about mental health. They have shared their stories with me and spoken poignantly about the challenges young people face today. I have also spoken with mental health practitioners, researchers and service providers. They have offered valuable insights into how we can work together to better support youth as they navigate the transition to adulthood.

With the new youth mental health fund, our government is investing $500 million over five years to enhance youth access to mental health care. This fund will help community organizations provide more care options for youth that are timely and accessible. It will help broaden our support network and better equip organizations to refer youth to other mental health services within their networks and partnerships.

Community organizations are a lifeline when it comes to mental health care. They provide direct support to people in need. They are trusted by the people they serve. They have first-hand knowledge, which is much needed to make a real difference, especially among equity-deserving groups and youth.

It is so important for us to remember what it means to be Canadian right now. We hold each other together. We are holding each other through many challenging things right now, including the lives tragically lost through the overdose crisis. This is where we step up and throw everything we have in our tool box at saving lives.

On the other side of the bench, unfortunately, there is much stigmatization. They talk about the overdose crisis in terms of our loved ones being criminals. They want to stigmatize our loved ones back into the dark corners and criminalize them. People should not have to hide their struggle with substance use and the disease of addiction. This is the ideology of the failed war on drugs. We cannot go back to that way of thinking.

We know that needle exchanges and safe consumption sites bring people into health care. It gives them another day, a day towards living and thriving. They walk into those places knowing that they will get the help they need. We're not just talking about saving lives. We're talking about getting people the health services they need with the compassion and care that they deserve.

Last September we launched a national call for proposals under Health Canada's substance use and addictions program. This program supports community-based organizations in delivering innovative prevention, harm reduction, treatment and recovery, and other evidence-based health interventions. Our $144-million investment in SUAP is an important part of a comprehensive response to problematic substance use.

We are also investing more than $20 million in a new youth substance use prevention program. This program will support the implementation and adaptation of the Icelandic prevention model right here in Canada, a model that has been highlighted multiple times in studies from this committee.

In addition, budget 2024 includes $150 million over three years for a new emergency treatment fund. This fund is designed to meet urgent needs on the front lines by providing support for municipalities and indigenous communities facing an acute increase in substance use harms and deaths related to the overdose crisis.

Mr. Chair, we are stepping up and looking at all options, but we cannot do this work in isolation. We recognize that it's incumbent on the provinces and territories, as the main health care service providers, to identify their needs and their priorities. Our historic investment of close to $200 billion over 10 years will improve health services across the country, with $25 billion being provided through tailored bilateral agreements. This funding will help integrate mental health and substance use services as a full and equal part of our universal health care system.

So far, more than a third of the bilateral funding has been allocated to mental health and substance use services. This is good news. It will strengthen the capacity of family health care providers to offer mental health and substance use support to patients all across the country. This is essential, because mental health and substance use care should never be an afterthought. Our mental health and well-being are integral to who we are, and the health care system must reflect this.

The Government of Canada will continue to work with its partners to ensure that mental health and substance use services are built into the very foundations of that system. With a strong foundation in place, Canadians can count on having access to a full range of high-quality, culturally informed, timely health care services that are accessible to them. This is what they expect, and they deserve nothing less.

Thank you.

I'm now happy to answer your questions.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Minister. We're going to start with those rounds of questions with Dr. Ellis for six minutes, please.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Thanks very much, Chair.

Thanks, Minister, for being here once again.

I have a question.

Did we hear testimony in this committee that the deputy chief of the Vancouver Police has testified that 50% of the Dilaudid seized is diverted from so-called safe supply?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

I am familiar with the testimony of Fiona Wilson. However, she did state that “we strongly support the notion of not trying to arrest ourselves out of this crisis.” She also referred to the importance of having a system where—

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Thanks very much, Minister.

Is it true that in November 2021, Fair Price Pharma imported 15 kilograms of heroin into British Columbia?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

It seems that the member is out of date with his facts. Fair Price Pharma removed that tweet and also had discussions with Health Canada, verifying that they did not.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Are you suggesting, Minister, that there is no heroin imported legally into this country?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON

Heroin is imported legally into this country under strict licensing and permit regimes.