Human Resources Committee on March 30th, 2023

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm just asking a question around process. If we don't have enough time, if we've exhausted 45 minutes already, should we let the second group go, based on the fact that we may not have the time? If not, at what time do we actually say to them that they don't have to stick around? They shouldn't be waiting that long.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's what I said at the very beginning.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

The other point is that maybe I can suggest we take a three-minute recess and try to figure something out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Procedurally, Ms. Ferreri has the floor. The witnesses are here, and the witnesses are scheduled for the second hour, should we get there. I cannot predetermine that, Mr. Coteau.

I have to resume with Ms. Ferreri unless somebody wants to ask for a suspension for a period.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

What I'm saying, Mr. Chair, is that right now it's 7:15 p.m. If we hear from the witnesses and have the first round, it's going to be an hour. Then we'll be at 8:15 p.m., after which we have 15 minutes of committee business. Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That's correct, Mr. Coteau, but I have to return to Ms. Ferreri, who has the floor.

Anybody can ask for a suspension at any time, and I'll consider it.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Would it help to have a motion to suspend for three minutes?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Not a motion—you can just request it.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

The request is to suspend for three minutes, and then, of course, the member gets the floor back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Do we have agreement from the committee to suspend for a few moments so that you can consult?

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

No. I don't think that's what—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

We don't have consent to suspend, Mr. Coteau.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

If there's no consensus, I'll withdraw my request.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay.

I have to return the floor to Ms. Ferreri.

Go ahead on the motion.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To Mr. Coteau's point, that's exactly why I put forth what I put forth. Then you guys voted no, which is why I'm sitting here going round and round and round. I was like, okay, we'll talk about this. This is totally talkable. Let's talk. Let's work on this. Then, no, everybody said no. Now here we are. Now we have these people waiting, and we're back where we started.

Do we add an amendment, at this point, asking if we can change the clause-by-clause date to one week later, which would give us more time? This is what we're talking about—ensuring that we have enough time. That's back to the motion. It's all about time and ensuring that, as I keep looping back, we can hear from all these thousands and thousands of parents and people who work in the industry, who are not comfortable with the way in which the bill is currently written. If we don't strengthen it here, then how is it going to get fixed? It's not going to. Then the Canadian families who rely on us to make legislation that works, we've all just failed.

I guess I will ask again: Is there an opportunity to add an amendment to change the clause-by-clause date to one week later? Then we can debate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Ferreri, you can introduce an amendment at any time.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes.

I would ask that we add an amendment to the motion put on the floor to change the clause-by-clause date to one week later, so that we can at least have this time for what I'm talking about, for hearing from everyone, because now we've also pushed these poor witnesses into the parliamentary wormhole of life.

I would say April 20, Mr. Chair. I would propose an amendment to change clause-by-clause to one week later, which would be April 20.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I'm sorry. It would be April 25.

It would be April 20 to submit. April 25 would be the one week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay, we have an amendment to the motion.

I will ask the clerk to read the amendment so everybody's clear.

[The Clerk]

The amendment is to change the time for submitting the amendments to April 20 and to change the clause-by-clause portion to April 25, 2023.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I will ask the clerk to call a vote, unless someone puts their hand up.

Mrs. Gray, go ahead on the amendment by Ms. Ferreri.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is really all about giving members enough time to listen to the witnesses.

When we're looking at the timeline right now, moving the clause-by-clause and actually pushing it further ahead is reasonable because the actual motion that we're debating here today talks about independent members. They're listed right in the motion. In fact, that gives the members who aren't sitting on this committee very little time.

In fact, moving the clause-by-clause forward a bit more does give members, other than the people sitting on this committee, time to look at this. I think that is reasonable for the motion that Ms. Ferreri put forth. This is really allowing us enough time to have proper scrutiny, not only for the people on this committee but also the independent members who don't sit here every day.

We heard from some other members that they sit on two or three committees, plus there's all the other work that we have to do. This would really allow everyone...because all members do have an opportunity to put in amendments.

I know that when we were doing Bill C-22, a member who doesn't sit on this committee brought forth numerous amendments. A number of those were debated. There was—I can't remember the exact number; I know for sure there was one that everyone voted on—an amendment that was actually then put into the legislation. That's why it's really important to allow all members, including independent members, to have the proper time to really scrutinize what this is and be able to put their amendments in.

We also know, Mr. Chair, that it takes time. You can't just write amendments overnight. It has to go to legal. It's really important that we get it right—for us at this committee and also for independent members. Moving that date ahead, to look at clause....

Then of course the clerk has to.... We don't know how many amendments are coming forth. It could be one. It could be a hundred. We really don't know. We see that with other legislation. The clerk's office has to be able to put everything together and categorize it. When we had it for Bill C-22, they were kind of looking at amendments from different people, parties and individuals that were similar. It all gets categorized. You can't just do that in a couple of hours. We really do need the time to do this.

The other thing is that the clerk does have to prioritize amendments. They really look at where there are duplications and which ones would come up before others because of who submits an amendment first.

There's a lot to consider, so to try to rush this all into a couple of days for an important piece of legislation like this.... It's not just a private member's bill with a couple of lines. We're talking about a substantive piece of legislation, so it's really important that we do this properly.

I'm in support of extending the timeline on this so at least we can have time to go through the amendments. Again, we don't know how many there will be. There could be a substantial number of amendments. Also, it's talking to other members here. I know that on Bill C-22.... We have different people on the committee here, but I had a great working relationship with my counterpart on the Liberal side. We would look at what some ideas were...of course without disclosing confidences, but just looking at ideas. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened here so far with this piece of legislation.

We had this dropped on us today without any type of conversation, so to hear members talking about working collaboratively and good intentions.... There were no preconversations here.

However, that's an aside. Going back to the amendment that we're discussing here, I think it's very reasonable to look at the timeline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

I have a point of order from Ms. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Am I permitted to speak here?