Human Resources Committee on Oct. 18th, 2023

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks for that.

I'd like to go to Mr. Dale and speak a little more about the skilled labour shortages.

I'll just share with you that CMHC released a report in October 2022 called “Labour Capacity Constraints and Supply Across Large Provinces in Canada”. That report projected that Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia would need to double housing starts over the next decade to reach CMHC's 2030 affordability supply target, but that labour constraints would limit these provinces. In Ontario, it would be limited to about 36%, Quebec 41%, and 29% in B.C., under a best-case scenario.

I'm wondering if you can tell us what Statistics Canada is seeing in the labour market when it comes to increasing the skilled trades participation in Canada. Do you think the summer jobs program might be a way to assist there, if necessary?

[Vincent Dale]

Thank you for the question.

I can give you a sense of the range of data we have that responds to that question. I don't necessarily have the analysis or the results to present today. I can tell you that we have quite detailed information on job vacancies by industry and occupation. We can speak to vacancies in the construction sector and vacancies in the skilled trades. Similarly, we can tell you that we have detailed information on employment by skilled trades and detailed information on participation in apprenticeship programs.

We do have the elements that would respond to your question. It would require some integration of that data and some analysis to respond more fully to the particular policy questions you are asking.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm running out of time. Just quickly, I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing some of that data with the committee, if that's possible. I'm very interested in that.

[Vincent Dale]

Certainly.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Aitchison.

Mr. Collins, you have five minutes.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Rempel, this is a wildly popular program, as I believe you could imagine. Well over 90% of the employers who responded commented that it was a very successful program and, of course, our youth responded as well through a voluntary survey. They responded with almost the same level of support, just under 90%. That's almost unheard of for those of us who have been elected officials for a while at any level of government. Getting a 90% score on any service or program that we offer is almost unheard of.

I missed my opportunity, Mr. Chair, to commend the staff who were here last week. We ran out of time, and I wanted to commend them for managing this program, because it is wildly successful.

My question would be around its popularity and the capacity to deliver more services. Of course, the program has doubled since 2015. Our government has doubled support for the program in terms of the number of placements, and it was increased even more so through the pandemic to provide employers, and, of course, obviously, as part of the youth employment strategy, our youth with opportunities through the pandemic to ensure that they gained employment during some very challenging times.

My question would be this. You have been in business for 50 years. I think you mentioned that at the start of your presentation. Could you give us a snapshot of the prepandemic scenario? During the pandemic, how did your organization shift gears to accommodate students and employers under very challenging circumstances, people working from home, and then how did you come out of the pandemic in terms of continuing this program and offering the placements through the employers and the industries you work with?

[Dr. Matthew Rempel]

To speak to some observations, at least in the world of work-integrated learning prepandemic, I think it's fair to say that co-ops, internships and work-integrated learning became very popular and were on a growth path across most post-secondary institutions, whether they be colleges, polytechnics or universities.

Many organizations, or at least many of the institutions, are looking for ways to balance the needs of students and learners with the identification of work experiences through our industry and employer partners. That's always a bit of a juggling act for post-secondary institutions. The demand from the student side is very high. There always needs to be enough employer opportunity for students to experience these incredible learning opportunities.

To answer your question about during the pandemic, obviously, with the economy and businesses unable to operate or have students in the workplace, we pivoted in a very similar way to many others. We advocated for employers to keep their co-op and WIL students as best they could and to leverage virtual work as a solution for that. We are thankful that many employers did respond and were able to, in some cases, salvage the education of students who would not have been able to graduate if they had been unable to have these working experiences, which were a part of their academic program. We're very thankful for that contribution.

Similarly, the funding through a range of federal programs, including the student work placement program as well as the Canada summer jobs program, is absolutely critical to inspiring our employers and industry partners to create enough opportunities to meet student needs across the spectrum of work-integrated learning.

Now that we have returned to a case of a bit more normal, I think we're going to continue to experience that supply-and-demand curve of students who need eligible, high-quality work experiences as part of their academic journey through post-secondary. Then there's also a cohort of students who may not be enrolled in post-secondary education who also require work experiences to enable them to develop the skills to pursue their career paths, even if it's not in the higher education direction.

It's our belief that wage subsidies in that environment do inspire employer participation, and that is required to support youth and our learners' needs.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Rempel.

You heard from Mr. Dale about some of the gaps that we still have in terms of accommodating and assisting equity-seeking groups. You did mention that at the tail end of your introduction.

Can you provide some information to the committee in terms of the progress you have made with employers and industries in terms of providing more support for those groups that are under-represented in the workforce based on the information that Mr. Dale has presented to us and information that we know is widely available beyond the StatsCan information?

[Dr. Matthew Rempel]

Thank you again for the question.

As a professional association, many of our members are the staff people and stakeholders who participate in student placements and student work experiences. As a community across Canada, we're all very invested in ensuring that all students have access to quality work experiences.

As a professional association, we have provided a fair amount of discourse and dialogue amongst our national conferences and around our professional development opportunities, ensuring that colleagues who are involved in the matchmaking of students with employers have access to training and advocacy materials to support their interactions with employers.

I think many of us know that there are the legal imperatives, but there are also the systemic barriers that might fall outside of the legal frameworks that equity-deserving groups may be experiencing when they're seeking work. In the CEWIL community, we do our best to make sure that we're advocating, to employers and industry, fair and equitable recruitment practices. We're equipping members of our community with the tools they need—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Dr. Rempel.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Rempel.

I think there's a real difference between the two programs, particularly as regards co‑ops, as well as work-integrated learning for post-secondary students. Many Quebec universities have adopted this arrangement. It's an education program.

However, our goal for the Canada summer jobs program is to determine how we can improve it. It has to meet specific objectives, which aren't the objectives of a workplace co‑op, an alternating work-study program or a skills development program.

I'm trying to get a clear understanding of what you're saying. I apologize to our witnesses from Statistics Canada, but, since there are no statistics on the Canada summer jobs program, I'm going to keep putting my questions to Mr. Rempel.

Mr. Rempel, do you think the Canada summer jobs program should be improved with regard to funding and job offers?

[Dr. Matthew Rempel]

Thank you again for the question.

The context I'm providing is from the lens of work-integrated learning. I think what happens is that employers who are recruiting summer students sometimes don't know whether a student is actually in a co-op for academic credit or is a student who's looking for a job between academic terms.

In that context, we offered some considerations for the program that might increase the eligibility to support some of those co-op students. In a general sense, we're firm believers in students' success. We're believers in students having quality work experiences, and additional funding to create additional wage subsidies that allow for that environment to take place is something that we would be supportive of—absolutely.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The Canada summer jobs program should at least offer a minimum wage equal to that set by the provinces.

I'm trying to get a clearer understanding here. It seems to me there used to be something called the student employment program. Now we call it the Canada summer jobs program. It's aimed at youth 15 to 30 years of age who, we hope, are studying, and its purpose is to provide our youth with work experience that's likely to qualify them for employment but that's also important for their development.

How do you think this program, which differs from the work-integrated learning and skills program, could be more flexible?

You said you wanted the program to be offered every year. Do you think as possible? Would you please explain the benefits of this proposal?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Could we have a short answer, please?

[Dr. Matthew Rempel]

Thank you for the question.

We know that students are in non-traditional academic cycles. Students may have breaks between academic semesters that may exist within the fall semester and may exist within the winter semester, and they need work during those breaks in their academic learning. It's similar to the historical model being summertime, when most post-secondary students would be looking for work, but they are available in the fall and winter and in greater numbers.

Similarly, this program, the wage subsidy, supports employer and industry access to youth talent and provides students with quality work experiences. As we know, industry and employers have projects and have work all year long, and it does seem that there might be an opportunity to consider extending the program across all three semesters. That would meet the needs of employers who have work in the fall and winter for students, and it would meet the needs of students who are on academic breaks in the fall and winter.

I hope that answers your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Thank you, Mr. Rempel.

I have Ms. Zarrillo to conclude the first round.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

My questions are going to be for Mr. Dale, but I wanted to recognize Mr. Rempel today. I really appreciate all the information you gave us today.

Mr. Dale, I firmly believe in the value of fact-based decision-making. You presented today the wider understanding of the labour market. Based on the data you see, on the insights you see and your office must talk about, what would you advise the government to focus on for Canada summer jobs grants in 2024, knowing the objective is to help young Canadians develop the skills and gain the paid work experience to successfully transition into the labour market?

[Vincent Dale]

I do appreciate the question. However, I would ask you to understand that it's not within my role at Statistics Canada to provide policy advice or policy evaluation. Unfortunately, I'm not able to answer the question.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'll frame it in a different way, because “The Daily” comes out and “The Daily” often has insights rather than data. It actually looks at the data and data insights.

I guess I would ask the question in a different way. The data I see in front of me talks about declines in certain channels. We know there's a significant decline in workers in construction, but an increase in workers or job opportunities in health care and social assistance.

Is it important to invest in those job roles that are increasing, or is it important to fill the gap in those job roles that are decreasing? Is there a conversation about that within Statistics Canada?

[Vincent Dale]

I hope you'll understand I'm not avoiding the question. I can't speak to the wisdom of investments in one area or the other, but maybe I could answer your question this way.

One could certainly look at, as I did in my opening statement, the overall trends in the labour market. In the summer of 2022, the labour market was extremely tight with historically high unemployment rates and historically high job vacancies. Since then, that tightness has eased somewhat. Employment growth has been steady but not quite in proportion to population growth. Vacancies have fallen 30%. It's an indication that labour shortages have eased. As you suggested in your question, one could look at trends in employment or vacancies by industry.

The question was asked about the construction sector. One could use the data to address the question, “Would it be wise to increase investment in the construction sector?” That's a valid question, and one could use Statistics Canada data to inform decisions around that question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo and Mr. Dale.

I would like to thank the witnesses for appearing in the first round and providing testimony to the committee members.

With that, we'll suspend for a few minutes while we get ready for the second group of panellists.

Again, to those witnesses who appeared, thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee, we'll resume with the second group of witnesses.

In this timeline, we have in the room Michel Cantin, Club de Tennis Saint-Jérôme, and appearing by video conference, we have Kim Thomas from Neptune Natation Artistique.

Mr. Cantin, you have the floor for a five-minute opening statement if you choose to make an opening statement.

[Michel Cantin, President, Club de Tennis Saint-Jérôme]

Good afternoon.

Thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion. I am the president of a local tennis club in Saint‑Jérôme and the president of a regional association. I was disappointed when I learned that budget cuts had been made to the Canada summer jobs program. This is a program that is unanimously supported. Everyone acknowledges the importance of this program and its objectives for both youth, non-profit organizations and small businesses. We are a non-profit sports organization. Sport is very important for citizens' physical and mental health. There is also a community side to it. I would therefore like to make the committee aware of how important this program is.

The population of the regional county municipality, or RCM, of which Saint‑Jérôme is a part, is 600,000 inhabitants. Just imagine the benefits that a program such as yours could afford in a region such as ours alone if we continued to promote it properly and recognized its true importance.

We represent a lot of volunteers, and they are good volunteers. Many of them are retirees who have held prominent positions and give a great deal of their time to their fellow citizens. This program also makes it possible to match youth who are embarking on careers with people who are established in the workplace. That's very important. Budgets are very important when it comes to promoting this kind of program, even in a community such as ours. In other words, you always have to be ready for the possibility that they have to be increased, especially if you think it's a good idea to promote the program and make it increasingly accessible.

Allow me to explain why I'm talking about the program's accessibility. Personally, I think it's difficult to apply to the program because the people who administer it are somewhat removed from the labour market. We have very good cooperation with all the employees who manage the Canada summer jobs program, but we often work online and that's difficult. When we contact them, someone may call back 48 hours later, and it's never the same person who responds. Once this part of the application process is improved, you'll receive increasing numbers of applications because the need is great. This is a program that no one will criticize. Everyone will be pleased with it. Consequently, you must be sure to make the necessary investments in it because we need it.

Our club had to hire coordinators to develop tennis in our region. Then we had to hire financial people and monitors. If we want to develop regionally, we'll have to ask the municipalities to build tennis infrastructure. So we have to establish a solid base. We'll be offering increasing numbers of good jobs. As someone said, it's very important to offer good jobs, and we've got them. I can also tell you from experience that this program has provided many young people in the labour force with their first job. We've hired students who worked for us for two or three years. Then they were hired back and went on to very good positions.

I would just like to make everyone aware of that. It's very important that the government continue this funding and consider increasing it regularly.

I'm very pleased to have met you.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Cantin.

We have Ms. Thomas for five minutes, please.