Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Good afternoon. I call this meeting to order.

We are meeting in public.

Welcome to meeting number 104 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on February 12 and May 1, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of pension transferability, access to the mandatory provident fund and delays in permanent residence and visas for Hong Kongers.

Before I begin, I have to do my usual "holy book" and ask all members and other in-person participants to consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents.

Please take note of the following preventive measures in place to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters. Use only a black, approved earpiece. Keep your earpiece away from all microphones at all times. When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the sticker placed on the table for this purpose.

I want to thank you for your co-operation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. We have resources until 7 p.m., so the hard stop will be at 7 p.m.

I would like to make a few more comments for the benefit of members and witnesses.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking.

For members in the room, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your understanding in this regard.

All comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members who are regular members of this committee know the procedure I use as chair. If you ask a question of the officials and you feel that the officials are going too long, instead of interrupting them, please raise your hand, and I will stop the clock to let them finish their thought process. Then you can start asking questions, and I will start the clock again.

Before we begin, I would like to welcome two honourable members who are filling in for other members. First is my dear friend, Julie Dzerowicz. The other friend is Julie Dabrusin. Welcome to the committee.

We have two "Julies" here. I just wanted to make sure. I even know the names of their ridings too, you know. One is from Davenport, and the other one is from Toronto—Danforth.

Now I can welcome the witnesses on your behalf.

Is there anything, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, that you want to add?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, this may be a point of order, but I would like some clarification.

Do members taking part in the meeting via Zoom have to turn on their cameras at all times?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, if the camera is not on, they are not considered present. If a vote is called, I would not take their vote. That is the process. It is up to the members to keep their cameras on. It is not mandatory, but if the camera is not on, they will not be counted as sitting in the committee.

On behalf of all of you, I would like to welcome our witnesses.

I will start with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. We have director general, immigration program guidance, Michelle Mascoll.

Welcome.

We also have Mr. James McNamee, director general, family and social immigration branch; and Elizabeth Snow, director general, international platform.

Welcome.

From the Department of Finance, we have Mr. Sven Linkruus, director, financial services and trade relations, financial sector policy branch; and Mr. Jeffrey Smith, senior economist, financial sector policy branch.

Welcome to the committee.

From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Madam Jennie Chen, executive director, greater China political and coordination.

Welcome.

Again, welcome to all of you. You have five minutes to give your remarks. We can start with the IRCC.

Mr. McNamee, go ahead, please.

[James McNamee, Director General, Family and Social Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you, Chair.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I am speaking today on the traditional unceded lands of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

I would also like to acknowledge that I'm joined here by my colleagues, as already mentioned, from the Department of Finance, IRCC, and the Department of Global Affairs Canada.

Canada stands shoulder to shoulder with the people of Hong Kong. We continue to monitor the situation as they navigate the impacts of the new article 23 national security legislation. While IRCC plays a significant role in the attraction, selection and integration of Hong Kong nationals in Canada, I would like to begin by contextualizing IRCC's role in your study of pension transferability and the access to the mandatory provident fund for Hong Kongers now residing in Canada.

The IRCC is responsible for the issuance of Canadian permanent resident cards, which prove permanent residency status. The cards contain information on the holder, including their nationality and their country of birth. IRCC adheres to international standards set by the International Civil Aviation Organization and international standards organization when determining the three-letter country codes listed on these status documents, drawing the information from the applicant's passport.

In our support of Hong Kong nationals, IRCC has taken concrete action by implementing special measures for those who wish to come or extend their stay in Canada, as well as those who wish to stay here permanently. In 2021 IRCC launched a public policy that allows eligible Hong Kong residents with recently completed post-secondary studies to apply for an open work permit valid for up to three years. That same year, we also launched two permanent resident pathways for Hong Kong nationals with Canadian post-secondary or work experience.

As of April 30, 2024, over 37,300 open work permits have been approved, and 7,300 individuals have been approved for permanent residence under these measures. Demand for these pathways remains high.

To ensure that no one loses their status in Canada while waiting for a decision on their permanent residence application, a new public policy was launched on May 27, 2024, that will give certain applicants to the permanent resident pathways an opportunity to obtain a new open work permit and remain in Canada while they await a decision.

To be eligible, a client's application must have been accepted into processing by IRCC. The client has to have held a work or study permit in the three years prior to their submission of their permanent residence application. Work permits will be valid for up to three years, and may also be issued to eligible family members.

IRCC remains committed to taking action, where possible, to assist Hong Kong nationals in establishing themselves in Canada.

Thank you, again, for the opportunity to join you today. We welcome any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

That took four minutes—good job.

Now I will go to the honourable members for the first round.

We are going to start with my dear friend from Calgary Centre, Mr. McLean.

You have six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to refer to the last meeting we had because some disconnects occurred in that meeting with regard to the mandatory provident fund and the ability to extract funds from that pension fund once people were in Canada—people of Hong Kong origin, obviously. Therefore, we'd like your input very clearly on how many of those citizens coming over from Hong Kong who are trying to access the mandatory provident fund savings are able to access those, and how many are not able to access those because of delays or not having the proper forms.

Can you give us a quick briefing on that—you know, that subject—first of all, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. McNamee, go ahead, please.

[James McNamee]

Thank you very much for the question. I would like to ask one of my colleagues who is more familiar with the MPF to address the question.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Mascoll, go ahead, please.

[Michelle Mascoll, Director General, Immigration Program Guidance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

IRCC doesn't have information on individuals who may have applied to transfer their pensions, so we don't have any information on that. We're not privy to that information.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

The problem is that people who come over with the Hong Kong passport through a British national overseas passport and get a Canadian passport have a designation that they arrive with here, that they arrive with on their passport here, that indicates that. The contention is that, as a result of that, they aren't able to access their mandatory provident funds.

Are you aware of this issue?

[Michelle Mascoll]

Yes, IRCC has been made aware of that issue for those who may have challenges seeking early withdrawal of their pension as a result of changes that were implemented for the MPF.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Can I have a little more fulsome answer, please? Can you tell me how many people have indicated that this is a problem for them?

[Michelle Mascoll]

IRCC has not received any inquiries from individuals who have expressed concerns about that.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

So, when you say that you're aware of it, how are you aware of it?

[Michelle Mascoll]

We're aware of it, I guess, through news releases and communications from stakeholders.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay, thank you.

The issue, of course, is that it came up in March 2021 when the Hong Kong government indicated that it would be changing the accessibility to the mandatory provident fund funds for people leaving Hong Kong on the British national overseas passport. Something changed at that point in time so that Canadians getting Canadian permanent residency certificates were no longer able to access those funds. Did anything change in your department at that point in time to make sure that Canadians who came here could still access those funds?

[Michelle Mascoll]

We'll have to come back on that question because I don't have any information at this moment about Canadians who may have come over having challenges accessing....

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

When I say “Canadians”, I mean people who are becoming Canadians—from Hong Kong.

[Michelle Mascoll]

Okay, we'll have to come back on that question, to see if anybody has specifically raised that. I don't have information at this time.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay, so, something changed in March 2021 when holders of the British national overseas passport or visa were no longer able to access the mandatory provident funds as well as they could before.

What I need to know is this: The designation that you put on the Canadian passports associated with British national overseas passports is GBN, I believe

[Michelle Mascoll]

The three-letter country code that's associated with the British national overseas passport, in accordance with the International Civil Aviation Organization standards, is in fact GBN.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

We need to be a bit quicker here, please, Ms. Mascoll.

So, GBN is the right answer.

[Michelle Mascoll]

Yes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay.

Would it be possible to change that since people who are coming over with “GBN” on their passport, their new Canadian documents, are now indicating that they cannot access the funds they've put away for retirement?