Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 7th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I received it in a fax yesterday at four o'clock. Then I phoned the gentleman who I was told to respond to and talked to him, Mr. Joseph Magnet, who is a lawyer who acts on behalf of the Pikangikum First Nation. I had a brief discussion with him and just reassured him where we were at as a committee, that we weren't intending or hadn't made the decision to all of a sudden dump ourselves upon the first nations people there to try to solve all their problems.

Do you want it read?

It's addressed to me, and it's headed “Circumstances at Pikangikum”. It says:

It has come to my attention that the Minister of Indian Affairs wrote to the standing committee on November 8, 2006 asking the committee to visit Pikangikum First Nation to carry out hearings and investigations (Pikangikum was not copied with this correspondence).

It has also come to my attention that the Committee began to hold hearings about Pikangikum in Ottawa.

Pikangikum First Nation has never been informed of these hearings. Pikangikum First Nation has never been informed of the committee's intentions.

Our legal counsel informs me that the committee held hearings in camera. This odd procedure is in nobody's interest. The difficult circumstances in Pikangikum require openness and transparency. The matter cannot be shrouded in secrecy, or made the subject of secret allegations and findings.

If the committee is going to receive further evidence in Ottawa, Pikangikum respectfully requests that the hearings be open, fully transparent and that minutes of the hearings be made publicly available, in keeping with Parliamentary traditions.

Pikangikum also requests an opportunity to appear before the Standing Committee in Ottawa on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 at 10:00 a.m. At that time, I would like to discuss the committee's workplan and procedure. I also want personally to invite the committee to come to Pikangikum to hold its hearings. I would like to discuss arrangements on how Pikangikum First Nation can best assist the committee to use its time in Pikangikum wisely.

Our legal counsel, Professor Joseph Magnet, will accompany me on Tuesday. Professor Magnet enjoys the First Nation's full confidence, and is authorized to make further arrangements on our behalf.

I look forward to receiving confirmation from you prior to the close of business Dec. 7 so that I may make appropriate travel arrangements, and to meeting you and members of the Standing Committee in person.

The letter is signed by Chief Charlie Pascal, Pikangikum First Nation.

We'll have this in French, Mr. Lemay, so you can take this with you.

The request here is that Chief Pascal would like to meet us at 10 o'clock on Tuesday. We do have business already scheduled in our list of business to do. That needs to be reviewed by the members, and we need to give some direction at the next meeting to Madam Hurley so that she can do some work up until the Christmas break and then after it.

Mr. Valley.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I fully recognize that I'm not a member of this committee. I'll be very brief. I think this is a huge opportunity for this community. I understand your busy schedule. I would urge your committee to see the chief. I understand how difficult that can be when you have other work slated. This is a big step forward for this community, and I urge the committee to see the chief on Tuesday, realizing all the difficulty.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Could I just ask a question, Mr. Valley?

When you first came here, before I left--and unfortunately, I didn't hear all of your testimony--you said you didn't want the committee necessarily to get involved because there would be an expectation, and unless we could live up to that expectation, it could be a problem. Those were your words.

I'm just wondering what you feel. If the chief comes here as a witness, do you think there would be expectations set, or do you think it would just be a good relation-building effort?

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I don't believe I said I didn't want the committee involved. I believe I said the committee needs to be invited by the chief. What I also said is that if the committee can do something and do something in a timely fashion, it's very important. I did say the minister has the ability to act much quicker.

This would be a huge thing for me, Mr. Chair, and I did mention that after you left. If this committee travelled to that community, this would be a real sign of some movement forward. I think that's a big step. And I don't mean to correct you, Chair, but I didn't say that.

I think it's important that the committee...if we can do something, let's get it done, and this is a first step on Tuesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Okay.

What is the pleasure of the committee, then?

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I have two requests. First, I would like the clerk to prepare a full file for us on the Pikangikum community.

All would need to be very conscientious over the next few days, and read our report. We could divide up our schedule like this: 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. on Pikangikum and 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. on the report.

Everyone should have read the report by then, so that we do not need to spend our meeting going over it page by page. I would suggest that everybody read it before 9 o'clock Tuesday morning. It will go much faster for our researchers and it will allow us to spend an hour with the Pikangikum chief and his legal adviser.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Madam Crowder.

We're running out of time, members.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Unfortunately, we don't have that letter in front of us, but my recollection of it is that the letter intimates that we have undertaken a study, and we have not, and I think we need to correct that piece of information.

We need to deal with this report on post-secondary education, and my preference would actually be that we deal with the report first at nine o'clock on Tuesday. I don't have any strong objections to having the chief and his representative come here, but I think we have to make it very clear that the committee has not undertaken a study. This is within the purview of the minister because we're getting drawn into something that we haven't agreed upon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Yes, that's a concern that I would have as chair in cautioning the committee, because it isn't a mandate of the committee that we necessarily get involved in this. We are here to review issues so we can recommend policy to the department through the House, and I'm just concerned that we're taking on some of the hands-on operating of the department, and that's a little scary.

I'm going to let the government have the last word here and then we're going to adjourn the meeting.

Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

On this topic, it is definitely within our purview to research matters that are before aboriginal Canadians. That clearly is part of the committee's mandate.

My sentiments are, though, that to be able to put the education study behind us is also an important task that we need to complete prior to Christmas.

I know our time is getting very short here. Of course, even the calendar itself potentially might not be something that we can count on even for our Tuesday meeting. It's not even outside the realm of possibility. So I'm just suggesting that perhaps before we make invitations to individuals, which we can't keep necessarily, we keep this in mind.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We have to go now.

I'm just going to ask Mr. Valley whether he thinks it would be more appropriate to have a meeting when we reconvene in February.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

The letter is in front of you, Mr. Chair. He has the opportunity to be here. I fully respect Mr. Bruinooge's point that we may not be here ourselves. I encourage the committee to meet with him if they can. I think it's important, for his state of mind, for us to move forward on many of these issues that we heard this morning.

I have to encourage the committee to see the chief.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

What is the pleasure of the committee?

Mr. Lemay says yes we should meet.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We'll have the report from nine to ten o'clock and then the chief from ten to eleven o'clock, and we'll just have to take our chances.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Could we make it really clear that we have not undertaken a study?

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

I'll ask the clerk to communicate to Pascal that we haven't undertaken any study.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

We need to ensure that we have enough time [Inaudible--Editor]....

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Right. He also needs to be made aware that if the House collapses....

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

There are two points: we haven't undertaken a study, but we want to hear from him in an air of respect; the other thing is that we have no control over the schedule of the House.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

We would be prepared to meet with them in February.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

If it doesn't materialize on Tuesday, we're willing to meet with him at the earliest available opportunity.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

If he's not a risk-taking man, he may opt for February.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

It would look horrible.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

We're saying, though, that if he doesn't want to take risks, he may want to choose to take our invitation in February.