Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 27th, 2009

[Paul Thompson]

In any of the partnership projects under ASEP that I mentioned, the local training providers like Yukon College would be key players in delivering the training. We don't want to develop a training capacity from scratch when there's a training provider on the spot. They are a key player with the Yukon Mine Training Association in the ASEP-supported project I mentioned, which has some pretty significant numbers around it, aiming to train 500 aboriginal Canadians. That is key.

Another program I haven't spoken of, though, which actually brings in a lot of training providers too, is our literacy and essential skills program. One of the priorities of that program, which invests over $40 million a year, is aboriginal essential skills, which speaks to a question from your colleague just moments ago. What we're doing through this program is really trying to target some of that investment in aboriginal-specific projects, where they look at innovative ways of bringing together the training providers to get the kind of innovation needed on the ground. So we are not taking typical classroom approaches that haven't demonstrated success, but are looking at new ways that are more culturally sensitive, and maybe more geared towards blurring that distinction between the workplace and the school, including distance delivery and different kinds of innovations like that, so they can take root. Then we try to have those replicated across the country where we see the successes.

So those are a couple of the ways we're working with training providers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There's time for a very short question, about 40 seconds or so.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Briefly, could you tell me a little bit more about how the economic companies in the north provide the information, or work together with HRSDC, in figuring out what jobs are going to be needed now and in the future?

[Paul Thompson]

We deal directly with a number of significant companies, but if approached by a company, we would immediately encourage them to go on the ground to build the partnerships they need and then to come back to us with a partnership-based proposal as to how all of the players are going to work together to meet the specific needs. We've done that with a number of mining companies of late.

It takes time to develop these partnerships. They don't emerge instantaneously, but when they do, they're quite powerful in terms of getting results on the ground.

So we're seeing these ASEP projects and are expecting to see a few more. These additional projects are really geared towards capturing the economic recovery and ensuring that as many of those jobs as possible go to northerners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Payne.

Now we'll have a few more questions, and we'll go to Mr. Russell, who I think is going to split his time with Mr. Bagnell.

Mr. Bagnell will go first. Go ahead.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I just have a quick question. You mentioned the resource revenue sharing, and I'm wondering how the negotiations are going with Northwest Territories and Nunavut to get them into regimes like that as part of a devolution package, I assume.

[Chris Forbes]

I can't comment on the specifics of the negotiations other than to say that Indian and Northern Affairs is in negotiations with the Government of the Northwest Territories on devolution right now--well, not right now, but the department is in ongoing negotiations, and as part of those, we would have discussions on the net fiscal benefit side of the equation.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

We're studying economic development and how we can improve it. Do any of the witnesses have any suggestions for us as to what barriers you see northerners may face that others don't, and what we as a committee could recommend to deal with those barriers?

[Chris Forbes]

I think that's akin to the earlier question. I think there are a lot of issues. It's a hard question to answer; there's no one piece of information or one single obstacle. You have to look at the whole picture of what makes an economy strong: it's education, it's infrastructure, but there are also social issues around there that need to be looked at. So it's hard for me to give you a single answer on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead, Paul.

[Paul Thompson]

I'm just going to add one point. Having an understanding of the specific job opportunities that are emerging is a critical foundational piece of information. If you have a sense of where the jobs are going to be in the future, and if you have that information early enough to actually make the upfront investments, it is one of the critical foundations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Go ahead, Mr. Russell.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Just following on what my colleague Larry was saying, from the finance department's perspective, you must look at different types of options that are available to you to advance economic development, to help economic development. Are there other things we should be aware besides what's just before us, in terms of...?

[Chris Forbes]

We've certainly put out a few economic documents over the years on that.

I think the framing questions, quite frankly, are the same questions you ask throughout the country. What are the preconditions for a strong economy? What do you need? Well, you need a skilled workforce, you need infrastructure, you need a competitive tax system, and all of those things.

Now, does the north have specific needs in those areas, or does it have some areas where it's stronger or weaker than the rest of the country? It's hard to answer in a simple way, but I think the same frame that we apply to the economy as a whole you could apply to the north.

[Todd Russell, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I think there's already recognition that there are unique circumstances associated with the north. You have the TFF as one, the northern residents deduction is another one, and there are other specific programs targeted at the north. All of that would lead us to believe there are specific challenges.

So I'm just wondering what you can suggest to us as a committee, from a finance department perspective, on how we can frame our study or how we can move forward. It's a huge undertaking for us as well.

[Chris Forbes]

Yes, I appreciate what you're taking on.

Again, I think the frame is still there, and I think you can go to some of the things we've done and say, clearly, housing is an issue in the north, perhaps more than in the south. We recognized that in the last budget by providing a specific fund for housing in the north—$100 million for Nunavut, and $50 million for the Yukon and the Northwest Territories—recognizing that the housing needs of the north are greater than they are in the south.

Clearly, in some of our other programs we offer specific aboriginal training because it's a different issue.

I still think that in the end we would come back in the department to the overall frame, though, and say, do we have a good infrastructure in place, and are the skills there? I go to Mr. Thompson's question about whether the skills there are matched with the job opportunities out there. These are the questions that we'd ask more broadly when laying out an economic plan for the country, and I think you could ask those questions at micro level, if you will, for the north.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you both.

I'm just going to take one of the government slots here for a moment and ask for a couple of points of clarification.

To Mr. Thompson, first of all, you mentioned in your opening comments that there were 71 projects under the aboriginal skills and training strategic investment fund. Could you give an example of what one of those projects might look like, and does it cover all three territories?

[Paul Thompson]

There will be projects announced in the coming weeks around those. They are the ones that were recently approved and that will be rolled out in the coming weeks, but there are a number of strong projects in the north, including in all three territories.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Could you give an example?

[Paul Thompson]

This component of the economic action plan was intended to capture some of the approaches in ASEP, but where there are immediate, concrete employment opportunities on the ground and where there is an ability to train people in a very short timeframe. They're shorter in duration and are usually smaller operations. The ASEP projects tend to be large mining companies, large initiatives. This is more for immediate, smaller-scale employment opportunities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

They are at the community level.

[Paul Thompson]

They are at the community level, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Second, in one of your remarks, you mentioned the notion of encouraging organizations to incorporate aboriginals into the workforce. Actually, it came up again in questioning. What sorts of measures do you put in place for this to happen? Is that an incentive for a business or an organization, or is it for specific programs?

[Paul Thompson]

We have 34 sector councils. Most of these are industry specific. One of them is a horizontal council that focuses on aboriginal issues. Their major initiative is on aboriginal inclusion. It essentially provides major employers with tool kits and strategies on how to approach and build partnerships with aboriginal people. Once you've attracted them, how do you retain them? How do you be culturally sensitive?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It's really training, counselling, encouraging--call it what you will--and working with businesses to incorporate more aboriginal....