Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

If I could just use a comment by the premier this morning, he said that one of the big things is going to be having a lot less Ottawa and a lot more Northwest Territories in the process. As Yukon has demonstrated, when you make decisions in your own backyard we tend to have a rigorous, timely, and effective system. We intend to be our own regulator. We're going to provide certainty to everybody. We want the systems to be clear. We want to hit the timelines. We want to do all the things we need to do to make sure we hit the balance between the economy and a sustainable environment, to protect the environment.

That kind of certainty, timeliness, and turnaround are probably going to be the biggest indicators. We are going to be monitoring this, as will industry. Everybody in the world is going to be monitoring how this rolls out. We think it will be demonstrated by how business is undertaken on the business side and by making sure we have that balance.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

I certainly appreciate your comments on having the leadership to decide that. Even though not everyone in the territory agrees with the timeline, you eventually have to lead and take that risk as leaders to pursue this, going forward.

One of the things we heard in the House yesterday, a criticism, was on consultation. It's my understanding that throughout this negotiation, throughout this process, the Government of Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories certainly took their section 35 obligations very seriously. The chief negotiator had 50 meetings with affected aboriginal groups regarding the composition of the new board. Perhaps you could talk about the GNWT's consultation process, how important that is to your government, and how you feel that consultation test was met during this entire process.

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If I could just quickly touch on the comment I made in my remarks about a consensus culture, we work very closely with the aboriginal governments. We have come up with critical pieces of legislation—for example, the Wildlife Act, which took 20 years until we changed the process—where we actually draft critical pieces of public government legislation with aboriginal hands on the pen with us, with working groups, to get it done. Our water strategy was done the same way. We articulated how we do business.

On the devolution side, we've been on this process for well over a decade. We funded working groups. We funded representatives from the aboriginal governments and their lawyers to sit in all the meetings. We worked our way through this and we continue to work our way through on the devolution side.

The MVRMA piece is federal legislation and we've been involved somewhat. The federal government has its own requirements for consultation, but for us on a go-forward basis, we've tried to lay it out. The premier keeps reiterating that we're in this together with all northerners, and the aboriginal governments are our partners. They're major landowners, and they have many cases where they've settled claims for significant resources for investment, and they are interested in the same type of sustainable development that we all are.

We think that as a territorial government, on consultation we meet or exceed that. The federal government has some of its own challenges because they have unique relationships with land claim organizations where there are those types of agreements. They'll be working through those.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Mr. Clarke, you have about one minute.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the minister for coming in as well.

One of the questions I have is in regard to the Athabasca Dene in northern Saskatchewan. They have overlapping issues with the Akaitcho and the Northwest Territories, but we see them also working in cooperation with the Métis.

Does the Northwest Territories recognize the overlapping land claim? Are they willing to sit down? Have you sat down with the Athabasca Dene on that overlap?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Yes. We have heard the concerns and are aware of them. We have our own concerns about the amount of what was initially traditional use land that has evolved into a significant amount of land in the Northwest Territories. So there are land claim issues to be resolved.

I heard the member talk earlier about getting the Akaitcho to the table. That's a challenge and it's not one that can be met except by the Akaitcho people. It's hard to make folks come to the table if they're not prepared to do that. They have a lot of their own concerns, so that's a land claim process that still has some journey, some distance, to travel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We'll turn now to Ms. Crowder for the next questions.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate your taking the time—and, of course, we want to add our condolences to the premier for the death in his family.

You mentioned in your presentation the five-year review. Of course, it's not in the legislation, but it is in the agreement. So I've looked at the wording in the agreement and it's pretty vague. It says, “No earlier than the fifth anniversary of the Transfer Date, the Parties shall conduct a review of the provisions....and then as soon as it's practical after such fifth anniversary...”.

I know this isn't a land claims agreement; it's devolution. But I'm sure you're well aware that when it comes to how the department has behaved with regard to comprehensive land claims implementation, some land claims holders or self-government holders have ended up in the courts.

I look at NTI in Nunavut, which has had to go to the courts because of implementation issues. We have the land claims coalition across the north, and partly from British Columbia as well, that has come together because of the lack of movement on implementation. Sometimes these review periods that are supposed to have taken place after five years have dragged out for seven, eight, nine, or ten years.

I understand the wording in here is deliberately vague in some ways because you can't anticipate everything that would need to be reviewed. But do you have confidence that you're going to have the resources and that the government will be able to meet the timeline of a five-year review, given its track record?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Yes. We're on the move. We're taking over the responsibilities. We are getting the resources to do that. The federal government has a role to play. On the MVRMA side they are maintaining some significant involvement. There are some unfinished issues that need to be resolved, and we're fully intent, this government and the next, to follow through.

Some things may happen sooner. There may be things we haven't anticipated that need to be looked at. So we're fully prepared to accept that we're going to get this done. While it's vague, the minister himself has said—it's here again on record—that this five-year review will be done, and all the parties will get it done.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

You will have to forgive me for being a skeptic. I know it's part of my role in the opposition, but we simply haven't seen that. This isn't just reflective of this government. This is not a partisan remark. It has been the history of Canadian governments of whatever political stripe, so you will forgive my skepticism on that, but I look forward to seeing it happen in a timely fashion with the required resources to make it happen.

You mentioned in your response that some things could happen sooner. Is there a mechanism to trigger additional resources if something comes up that has not been contemplated in the agreement and in legislation?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With regard to your skepticism, I guess it's maybe easier to be skeptical because you're sitting here in Ottawa, but I'm telling you, where we live, we're ready to go. We know there's risk, but there's risk in everything we do. We're in the risk business, so we have to keep moving.

With the issue of what things may be required or the unanticipated consequences of some of the things, there are going to be things that we collectively agree need to be adjusted. We're all reasonable people. Hopefully, common sense will prevail on a lot of these things.

It's not the issue of more money; it's the issue of authorities and process, and those types of things. For example, the premier mentioned that one of the outstanding issues for us, peripheral to this but very significant for us, is that we've got to sort out our borrowing limit because we want to be able to do significant infrastructure developments that will benefit industry, and we need to be able to manage our money. I've talked about our AA1 credit rating, for example. It will allow us to be able to go to the marketplace, work with industry, and make some of these projects a reality.

It's not a question of money from the federal government. Just give us the tools and let us manage our business without needless constraint.

That's a related piece as well. These issues are all going to need to be addressed.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

To be clear, Minister, we have faith in the Northwest Territories. We don't have faith in the federal government.

Do I have time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

You have about two seconds.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Okay, that will conclude my comments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Mr. Leef, we'll turn to you now for the next questions.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think you've articulated it quite well. We don't want perfection to stand in the way of progress. If we waited for happiness all across the land on all occasions and every i to be dotted and t to be crossed, we might never see this happen. You've certainly articulated well that your government and the people of the territories are in a great position to look at how it's working. They will continue to communicate and prepare themselves for a five-year review and move this forward. You've clearly expressed on the record that Premier McLeod's relationship with the Prime Minister is solid, and that obviously flows down to the relationship with all of your respective ministers and the Government of Canada's ministers. So I clearly don't share Ms. Crowder's concern about being able to move this forward. I think you've clearly articulated on the record that we're in a good position to make sure that this agreement has its best chance of success and that future amendments and changes and adaptations will be met with a positive response from our government.

You talked a bit about the 2003 experience in the Yukon—it was brought up by Ms. Jones—and some financial challenges. Of course, we all remember well that the Liberal government was leading that one and any miscalculations there might have been a challenge with a different government in charge. Since that point, we've brought in historic resource revenue-sharing agreements for the territory and we've increased the borrowing limits for all the territories. As you mentioned just a moment ago, you need to work on the territorial borrowing limits because of major infrastructure projects.

Can you touch on past and present, including what the government has done in increasing the territorial borrowing limits to this point, and where you want to see that go, and potentially what the Northwest Territories can do with their major infrastructure needs with the devolution agreement? What proposed territorial borrowing limit increase would you be looking for?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Mr. Chair, I'll quickly touch on some of the goals we have.

Around Yellowknife, in the North and South Slave, we have two unconnected hydro grids that we need to connect so we can have greater efficiency, and so we can look at providing energy at a reasonable cost up to the diamond mines. Every year that we can help support extending mine life, it's $250 million a mine. The diamond mines contribute about $2.5 billion a year to GDP.

We need to connect those grids. We need to look at a southern intertie so we can become part of the grid, either in Saskatchewan or in Alberta, so we can have that development and the affordable energy that is absolutely critical to life in the north. It's critical anywhere, but our cost of energy is one of the biggest deterrents we have to development. There's that piece.

If the Central Mackenzie oil plate takes off, we want to be able to work with industry to put the road in from Norman Wells to hook into the highway system down south at Fort Wrigley. We need the capacity. That's about a $250-million project. That transmission line piece is about $700 million.

With an $800-million borrowing limit that is now constrained because we have to include NTPC debt, which is self-financing, for example, for $400 million, it takes up a lot of room. The federal government has worked with us. We've gone from $300 million, to $500 million, to $800 million over the years. We've managed to put in our share of the money for the Inuvik-Tuk highway.

We also are putting in a major fibre optic line all the way from Inuvik down to hook into the southern fibre optic system. Inuvik is going to be one of the premier sites in the world for remote sensing. It's different from non-renewable resources, but it's an incredibly important project.

We're doing all of that because we have the room under the current system, but for those other big projects I just talked about, if we don't get an accommodation, then our development and our ability to implement devolution are going to be severely constrained.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

In the Yukon when we entered devolution, we saw expansion in terms of opportunity and training when certain jobs rolled over on land management. I know that this is getting into the nuts and bolts of it a bit, but do you see some expansion in terms of training opportunity, education opportunity, and work development opportunities for people when land management transfers over, or in other specific career fields?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Very quickly, I'd like to point out an earlier comment you made. We learned from the Yukon experience. I read the paper that was done by the federal government on lessons learned from the Yukon process. I think there were lessons that we all took into consideration and were very important to us. That's a good piece.

We see that there are going to be significant opportunities. But one of our challenges, in fact, is that between ourselves and industry we currently have jobs going begging because we can't fill them, in communities, or industry, or government. As a government, we have roughly 800 vacancies that we're trying to fill, both in Yellowknife and outside Yellowknife. At the same time, the mines have to recruit farther and farther afield.

We want our kids to go to school, we want northerners trained, and we want them to be working in the north. That's one issue. The other big problem, though, is that we do at this point—the Yukon may be the same—have vacancies that we are struggling to fill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Mr. Bevington, we'll give you time for a short, short question.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, this whole issue of the regulatory system, which the federal government is running with, is based on the fact the NWT hasn't worked for the last years. What you just said, I think, is indicative of the fact that the NWT has had a lot of development. It has had development that it can't handle. It's at a point.... We've had three mines developed in the last dozen years. We've seen three more mines that have gone through the regulatory process and have achieved approvals.

The minister talked about our economy as being little short of a basket case. That's really not appropriate, is it? Our economy in the Northwest Territories is moving along very well. As you point out, we can't even fill the positions that are available in the Northwest Territories. Is that correct?

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Of the three territories, the Northwest Territories has the largest GDP. We have gross domestic product worth about $4.5 billion.

There are challenges in our territory. One of our challenges is that our population has been stagnant. We're looking to get people in the north.

But we do have plenty of opportunity. We have clear thinking about how we want to address that. On the issue of training and filling vacancies, every jurisdiction across the country is struggling with those challenges. We are no different—just a little farther away.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Minister, we want to thank you for coming. We appreciate your coming to testify on this important and transformational bill. We look forward to being in discussion with your government over the next number of months on this. We hope to see things move along.

[J. Michael Miltenberger]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Colleagues, we'll see you on Tuesday.

The meeting is adjourned.