Evidence of meeting #105 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-262.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Chief Robert Bertrand  National Chief, Congress of Aboriginal Peoples
Todd Russell  President, NunatuKavut Community Council
Geoff Plant  Partner, Gall Legge Grant Zwack LLP, As an Individual
Chief Abel Bosum  Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)
Delbert Wapass  Thunderchild First Nation
Paul Joffe  Legal Counsel, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)
Sehoneh Masty  Representative, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)
Grand Chief Mandy Gull  Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)
Paul John Murdoch  Chief Negotiator, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

5:10 p.m.

Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

Grand Chief Abel Bosum

[Witness speaks in Cree]

Well, first of all, I think the agreement does have the framework for addressing many issues. As I mentioned in my statement, we saw the James Bay agreement as a framework for partnership in governance, environmental issues, and development issues. Now, it has taken some time for the Government of Quebec to understand what we meant by that, and of course we butted heads in the early years.

However, since 2002 when we signed the Paix des Braves, we took a different approach to how we were going to deal with development. Since then, we have been able to implement our treaty in all sectors: education, health, policing, justice, and so forth. As well, we have been able to negotiate over 40 agreements with the industries and close to 50 agreements with the governments, so there is a way.

I want to turn to Paul John again and just have him maybe explain a little about the environmental assessment process, which could certainly be a way to deal with some of these megaprojects we're talking about across the land.

5:10 p.m.

Paul John Murdoch Chief Negotiator, Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

Meegwetch.

[Witness speaks in Cree]

I'm so glad you brought up the other elements of free, prior, and informed consent, because everybody gets stuck on consent, yet when we present a project in the community or Brian and I are involved in some assessment, it's the “free, prior, and informed” part that is really important.

When I listen to my grand chief speaking and I look at the agreements he negotiated, it's not for nothing that the agreements begin with the word “relationship”. That's what the James Bay and Northern Québec Agreement is. When you read UNDRIP, you can't read article 19 in isolation; you have to read it with 18. It's a relationship. When people harp on the issue of consent and on free, prior, and informed consent, and there's fear that comes out of it, you automatically see that the person is looking at it like a transaction. If you look at it like a transaction, you'll lose, and that's always been the source of butting our heads on the James Bay and Northern Québec Agreement.

However, once we get it back into a relationship and we get to own the decision that comes out of the process, instead of focusing on the “no” that would come from the community you instead get to see the incredible value of a “yes” that comes from the community. There's not a single project in Cree territory that has gone through an environmental impact assessment that wasn't made better by the land users and the advisers and the decision-makers from the community. We've approved way more projects than we've held back. When we approve all of those projects, we improve them as well. This is where it's a bit sad when we don't recognize the relationship part.

There are guiding principles. Every once in a while we get stuck on a project, and Brian is the voice of wisdom who usually sends us back to, “Hey, let's read the treaty. What does the treaty say about the principles we're supposed to use when we make these decisions together?” We're two representatives named by the Cree Nation Government, and we have two representatives named by Quebec, and this is our decision we send to the minister.

After talking about first nations' rights, protecting the land, protecting the environment, and protecting wildlife, people are surprised that part of our mandate—per subsection 22.2.4, article f) on the involvement of the Cree people in the application of this regime—is to protect “the rights and interests of non-Native people, whatever they may be”. You have Cree representatives defending the rights of non-native people in our territory, “The right to develop by persons acting lawfully in the Territory”. You have Cree representatives defending the right of people to act lawfully and then minimizing negative impacts and trying to augment social impacts. As the grand chief said, when you focus on the relationship and get to be a part of the decision, we'll defend the decision. We'll use our institutions to defend the decision. However, when we focus on consent, you're reducing us to a simple transaction, we're put in isolation, and you're not going to get the full value of our participation.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC

I have a quick question for Chief Wapass.

You talked about respecting each other's territories. I'd like you to have a chance to elaborate a little on that.

5:15 p.m.

Thunderchild First Nation

Chief Delbert Wapass

Through the treaty land entitlement process back in Saskatchewan, for example, we have Treaty No. 4 territories or other treaty areas within Saskatchewan with the ability to buy land in other areas of Saskatchewan. There has always been that respect where you go and you talk. If it's in our area, our traditional area, a chief will come to talk to us. Chief Todd Peigan, let's say, from the Pasqua First Nation in the Regina area will come to talk to me in our area—for example, “We'd like to do this. Is there an issue? How can we work this out?” If there's a concern or issue that can't be resolved, it's respected. So that's what I mean by that.

I just want to make the case in point that I respect the work that all you guys do here. I don't vote federally, provincially, or municipally. I vote in my Indian government. But I come here to represent them, and to respect the work that you do.

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

The questioning will now move to MP Danny Vandal.

You only have about a minute or two.

May 1st, 2018 / 5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Okay.

Grand Chief, let's assume that Bill C-262 is adopted. What should the next steps be for the federal government?

5:15 p.m.

Grand Council of the Crees (Eeyou Istchee)

Grand Chief Abel Bosum

Once it's legislated, then I think we have to sit down, work out the framework agreement that is being discussed at the moment, and define exactly how it would be implemented. That work needs to be done together—with the government and first nations people.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

Thank you.

Chief Wapass, I have the same question for you.

5:20 p.m.

Thunderchild First Nation

Chief Delbert Wapass

What the Grand Chief said.

5:20 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk

That's a great way to end.

I want to thank you all for coming. The committee will be moving in camera, so there won't be an opportunity for our members to thank you personally. On their behalf, we really appreciate your input. The good work that you've done is an example for the whole country. Coming from the exploration side, I know that I always looked to the Quebec Cree for a deal that worked for everybody. It's really a shining example of success.

Merci beaucoup. Meegwetch.

[Proceedings continue in camera]