Evidence of meeting #60 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
This money? No. Sorry. This money is to settle claims that have not yet been settled or awards from the Specific Claims Tribunal that have not yet been handed down.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Okay, so on a land claim where they're trying.... In this case, the county, the municipality that the land is coming out of, has a large facility there and the county is saying that they have to buy the facility from them before they move out, essentially. Would this money be part of buying that facility?
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No. This money is related to claims that have not yet been settled, so if you're talking about a specific case that has already been settled, like Peerless, that's not part of this amount.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Okay. That will have to go through a different channel.
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I assume so. I apologize, but I don't know exactly the answer to that question.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Okay.
In the case of the Lubicon, they're still working to get their reserve—
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
—so when the lines on the map get decided, does that then come with all the resource development that's happened in that area, with all the royalties that have been collected from that? Is that what this money is saying? Are we going to go back in time and we're going to say that we collected this much in royalties from all the oil interests in that area, this much in royalties from all the gravel interests in that area, and this much royalties from the stumpage fees, and we're going to collect that back over time and say that now, because these lines on this map are this area...? Is that how this claim works?
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, that would be part of the negotiations. I don't have any information directly on that one.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal MaryAnn Mihychuk
Perhaps the department could provide a written response to the member on those specific questions since no one here can answer it, if that's all right with the MP.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thanks to all of you for being here today and doing the best you can to answer our questions.
I want to go back to the line of questioning from Romeo Saganash.
There was $200 million last year and there is $240 million this year, I think you said, going into trying to fully implement Jordan's principle. This may not be a fair question, and if you don't feel you're in a position to answer it, I completely understand, but why do you feel there is a disconnect between where the tribunal is and where the department is, or do you feel that there is a disconnect?
9:25 a.m.
Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
My personal view, what I believe, is that we all share the objective—the department, the minister and the tribunal. It's all about kids first, as the minister has said. It is trying to ensure that there is a sufficient amount of money to deal with the immediate needs, and that there are no jurisdictional squabbles that will impact the servicing of the individual, and realizing, as the minister has said a number of times, including at this committee, that the overall system is broken. There is a danger on the immediate level about how much money you put into a system that is actually broken and that needs to reform.
The question becomes, since everybody shares the objective, which is a bit long term, how do you move and what is the degree of agencies' capacity to move? There is a view on one side that the capacity should not be factored in, in terms of the agencies' ability to reform. Just give them all the money they want, and then they'll do it. But even the agencies themselves are saying, “We can't even get qualified staff to come in the door, so even if you give us the money, we won't be able to spend it.” There's an operational element, in terms of the implementation of the orders, such that I think there may be a disconnect, essentially, between the aspirations that are coming at the tribunal and the reality on the ground of the agencies themselves to actually deliver. We're caught in the middle between what they are saying to us and what we are trying to say.
What I've been trying to articulate and what the minister has said is that we are respecting, in broad terms, what the tribunal has been saying in terms of immediate relief. I've cited some figures on the extra amount of money. We've also stated how many Jordan's principle cases health services we have set, starting from ground zero up to 4,900, and we have commenced reform negotiations. From an objectives perspective, we are adhering to what the tribunal is putting on the table.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Is the disconnect between the aspirational goals of the tribunal and the reality of being able to deliver on those immediately given that the system is broken?
9:30 a.m.
Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes. It's a timing issue, and program reform—
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
So the department has the intent to achieve those goals; it's just that you have restrictions and challenges to overcome in order to fulfill them completely.
9:30 a.m.
Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That is correct.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
On the land claims front, I also have an indigenous community, the Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte, who have a land claim right now. Would that land claim be, potentially, coming from this money that's available there? Are you familiar with that claim?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes and yes.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mike Bossio Liberal Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay, good.
How far along are we now with the housing and the investments being made in Manitoba to try to resettle individuals impacted by the flood? Is that money going to fulfill the desire of the indigenous communities there, those four communities? Is it going to finally put them into their homes and back into their communities?
9:30 a.m.
Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's correct. We expect all the evacuees from those first nations to be back in during the following fiscal year. They need to have a community and an infrastructure base to move back to, right?
9:30 a.m.
Director General, Specific Claims Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Exactly.