Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Dec. 8th, 2020

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to listen to everybody's perspectives today. It's wonderful of you to join us. Thank you.

It's also just great, as has been pointed out already, that we're able to come together virtually. You are all part of the northern region, but it's so vast, and the travel to come to Ottawa would be so challenging. Qujannamiik, nakurmiik, Ms. Turner, Mr. Pillai and Ms. St. Denis for joining us today.

I'm joining you today from the traditional territory of the Algonquin here in the West Block in Parliament.

I love the north. I love to visit. Whenever I have the occasion to express gratitude to Inuit for the gift of the kayak, I do. I was a professional kayaker for 20 years and I had the pleasure to visit the north and express that gratitude personally, but I never resist the temptation to express it again, so thank you.

I've also had the opportunity to try and eat country foods like nattiq and muktuk. For those on the call who are not familiar, that's seal, whale and narwhal. It was quite an experience, and delicious.

As I mentioned, the diversity of the challenges and issues that people are facing in the various northern regions is vast, but diversity is important to recognize, so it's important that we don't try to paint the north with one brush, as has been mentioned just now.

My question is primarily for Ms. Turner, but if there is time left over, I would extend the same question to the others—without coming back on, if that's possible, to save time.

I recently had the occasion to discuss the issue of northern food security with the founder of Community Food Centres of Canada, Nick Saul. He said something that has stuck with me for a couple of days now. It's been corroborated somewhat by our witnesses today, but I'd really like your take on it. He basically said that the solution to hunger isn't actually food, because the cause of hunger is poverty. Just giving people food or a discount on it doesn't solve the problem of poverty, and that doesn't get to the root problem of hunger and food insecurity.

I hear you that we've made some progress. I hear you that the investments being made now are making a difference, but I'd like to know from you and the others what this thesis of the solution to hunger not actually being food means to you in the context of the challenges that your communities face and where we might go from here.

Thank you again for being here.

[Lindsay Turner]

It's a bit circular. It's difficult to take steps forward in your life if you are hungry, if you don't have the nutrients and energy to even get up and concentrate.

Absolutely, there are lots of struggles with poverty, trauma, mental health and addictions in Nunavut that make it difficult for people to access skills or training and to be successful in their community endeavours or employment. Absolutely, it contributes to it.

Similarly, there is a focus and concern on skill building. That break in skills has happened, and it has stopped the traditional knowledge of the elders from being passed down to younger generations in terms of how to get out and access their food. That also has been a big challenge. The cost of a skidoo and a komatik and bullets and guns is a limiting factor, so it's a bit circular in a sense, but you do need food to have the energy to take steps forward.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I appreciate the comment. The thesis was a bit philosophical and not exactly the most pragmatic thing, but thank you for that.

Mr. Pillai, do you have any comments?

[Ranj Pillai]

What I want to illustrate to the panel is that when we think about our own food production and that bigger conversation about climate change and take into consideration what we could do at a Yukon domestic level as a government, we realize there are definitely some key values in the points you're making.

We have a holistic approach in how we're dealing with a number of items, whether it's support for some of our most at risk and youngest right through to the supports we've put in to work hand in hand with our first nation communities. Our first nation communities are exceptional leaders. Of our 14 first nations in Yukon, 11 have modern treaties. They probably make up half of the self-governing first nations in the country. There are many very independent strategies that they are putting in place to deal with this. From our perspective, when I have my agriculture hat on, I think about how to make sure we build infrastructure, and we have small communities where they are buying farms that were in place. The first nations are running those farms, and their elders are there. They're getting to choose the things they want to see growing next year.

We're seeing that happen in each one of our communities. It's such a holistic approach. It's a healthy way of living. The folks in those communities, indigenous or non-indigenous, have access to that great food, and it helps in all causes. As Ms. Turner said, you have to have the fuel, and if anybody knows that, you do.

Overall, there is definitely some substance there. When we think about food security at a social level, we have to make sure that the programs running in our urban areas, where most of our population is, are identifying those needs.

This year, at our food bank, we had local chefs using local produce with local recipes to feed populations at home that had some challenges. That's what we want to see happen, versus shipping it in. We want to support our programs that way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We go now to Madame Bérubé for six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am addressing the witnesses who are here. Earlier, we were talking about poverty. Food insecurity and insufficient nutrition disproportionately affect indigenous individuals, households and communities in the north.

What factors do you think contribute to food insecurity in your respective territories?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Do we have a response?

[Lindsay Turner]

I think it was a question to everyone, so I can start.

Thank you for your question, Ms. Bérubé.

Indigenous peoples, Inuit, account for nearly 80% of Nunavut's population. About 40% of the population receive social assistance. Poverty affects a large proportion of Nunavut's population.

A number of factors contribute to food insecurity, including past policies that have caused trauma that lives on today, mental health issues and addiction problems. Another aspect has to do with the high cost of equipment and food. Added to this are difficulties in transferring knowledge from one generation to the next, especially when it comes to accessing food and hunting. Those are important factors in Nunavut.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

What is the situation in Northwest Territories?

[Tracy St. Denis]

The translation kicked out during the question, but my understanding from Nunavut's response.... In the Northwest Territories, our food insecurity factor is about 21%. For us, it's about having sustainable, self-reliant options moving forward. Obviously, poverty, health and education all have links there.

I don't know if there could be an opportunity just for a quick recap on the question once again. There was a bit of a technical glitch.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I will repeat the question.

We were talking earlier about poverty and about how food insecurity and insufficient nutrition disproportionately affect indigenous individuals, households and communities in the north.

What factors contribute to food insecurity on your territory?

[Tracy St. Denis]

Thank you.

The challenges in the Northwest Territories, obviously, are the high percentage of food insecurity, as well as access to reasonably priced foods. The Nutrition North Canada program plays a role there, but our government is really focused on having programs and using programs like the CAP to make sure that there are training and skills built in order for people to get out of poverty.

The solution needs to be a northern-based one. I think it would be important to get direct indigenous government feedback, and that might be something that we could help facilitate. Really, it's about how we can change the shift between doing some investment in social economic development and getting people out of poverty. Our anti-poverty coalition is meeting in the new year, and I'll commit to providing a meeting summary to the committee as well.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

What is the situation in Yukon?

[Ranj Pillai]

Thank you. I'll keep it brief.

As you can see from my colleagues, when we reflect on the status, situation or perspective with our first nations government partners, we're very respectful in the sense of just ensuring that those nations are speaking with their own voices. I would offer that the Council of Yukon First Nations is doing a lot of work right now to ensure that there are programs in place that are aligned with the Department of Education to ensure that young individuals are starting the day off right and to meet some of the gaps that might be in place.

I would just pivot to one spot. I would say that costs continue to grow. I see it. I think anyone living here in Yukon is experiencing it. What a bundle of goods looked like five years ago, 10 years ago.... We're seeing it across the country. I think people will make the right choices collectively, but cost is going to be a factor. We have one fly-in community, so we don't have the same challenges as my partners from Nunavut or the Northwest Territories, but in that community, when you think about it.... One that I always joke about with my colleague Minister Frost, who's the Minister of Health, is that a watermelon costs $30, if you can get one. I know my partners across the other territories would have stories that would make that seem minimal.

Again, I believe it's cost. I think people will make the right decisions if those foods are available to them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Blaney, go ahead for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today for their interesting testimony.

Ms. Turner, you talked about 79% of children facing food insecurity in your territory. You then talked about the difference, for you, between food security and food sovereignty. Could you explain what that means a little bit more?

[Lindsay Turner]

Food sovereignty speaks to the ownership and control over food systems. In Nunavut, if we think back to the traditional source of food and the traditional way of life, Inuit had control over going out on the land and getting their own food. Today, because of the levels of poverty and because of the multiple factors that are limiting access to both getting out on the land and settlement into communities, there is a lot more store-bought food. Private companies are shipping up the food to communities.

Food security means having enough food to eat versus the shift to having control over what food is available to you and how you access it, and having that choice. Food sovereignty, in terms of the point about children, would be the capacity to pass that skill and control to the younger generations.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. That's really helpful.

You also talked about the fragility of accessing country food, and how the challenges are multiple. Could you talk about what issues cause this fragility and what steps you think would be helpful in ending the fragility?

[Lindsay Turner]

Among the factors that have contributed to the fragility is the broken transmission of on-the-land knowledge. That is huge. It can't be underestimated.

There are other examples. The sled dog killings completely took away the tools that Inuit had to go out on the land. Today, with the changing times, there's much more use of skidoos and ATVs. Obviously, this is expensive equipment. Some of the challenge is being able to afford that equipment. Some of the challenge is even having access to the replacement parts to fix your skidoo when it breaks down so that you can get out on the land.

As well, climate change is obviously huge. Hunters are having to go further and further away from communities to reach the animals they're hunting. Those are some of the factors.

There has been some good progress in the last few years with the creation of the harvester support program through the Nutrition North Canada program. The other big investment that is needed on a larger scale is for our young hunter mentorship programs. There are a couple of really beautiful programs. To see the joy in kids' faces when they catch their first catch.... It's such a valuable community celebration.

There are a number of strong programs across the territory. There is a need to support those programs and create them in the communities where they're not as strong so that we can get kids out on the land.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

That's a great segue into what I wanted to ask about next.

You talked about federal funding and some of the challenges you're seeing in your region around how those funding sources are designed, and some of the particular barriers. You even mentioned access to Internet as one of those barriers. Could you talk a little bit about what those barriers are and the design changes that would be helpful for communities in your region?

[Lindsay Turner]

A lot of federal applications are shifting more and more to Internet-based applications, computer-based applications, so if you combine that with.... I don't have the statistics, but bandwidth is very limited, and the vast majority of the population don't have access to a phone or to the Internet.

You combine that with a culture that is.... Written communication is not really part of the traditional Inuit culture; it's more of a storytelling culture, a spoken culture, so taking the time to write down—in your second language—your project idea is a barrier. It's difficult. As well, some of the criteria of the federal application often make it impossible for communities; they don't end up being eligible. Those are some of the factors that make it very difficult for communities to apply.

Also, it's the short deadlines for turnarounds in applying for projects. As well, there's community exhaustion, because that they have to send out so many different applications to get bits and pieces of funding and be able to get enough funding to meet the high costs here in Nunavut.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to ask the committee something now. We have time issues, of course. My suggestion as chair is that we do as we did in the previous round: We would have each of the parties speak for their allotted second-round time, with five minutes for the Conservatives and Liberals, and two and a half minutes for the Bloc and the NDP. Then, if we approve of that, because we need to have your approval to go past one o'clock, are the witnesses available to stay with us for a few more minutes after that?

I see thumbs up from the witnesses. Okay, great.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Chair, I have a quick point of order.

Obviously, when we agree to go late, sometimes colleagues have to go to other meetings, so of course there would be no motions or other things entertained. I want to clarify that before we agree to continue past the deadline.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Oh, you caught me.

No, we're not going to do that. Thanks; it's a very good point, and I appreciate that. We'll continue as stated.

Eric Melillo will be next for five minutes. Go ahead, Eric.