Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2024

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm sorry, MP Idlout. I unfortunately have to catch a plane.

I'll do MP Idlout's question, and then I will have to go.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I'm sorry. I have many questions for you, and our question period has been shortened, unfortunately.

We know that targeted infrastructure and capital expenditures need to be $350 billion for first nations, $75.1 billion for Inuit and $2.7 billion for Métis. Those are capital expense items—infrastructure dollars.

Why is it that you aren't requesting supplementary funding now? It isn't enough. We need supplementary funding to cover infrastructure costs.

[English]

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much.

I would agree that this gap is giant. It was one of the reasons we actually commissioned the study from AFN and other partners to understand exactly what the gap is. After a decade of inaction from the Harper government, we've seen increases for first nations infrastructure of 156%, but, in fact, that is barely scratching the surface. With a gap of $400 billion, it's going to take some creativity, innovation and work with partners to close that gap more quickly.

You're absolutely right, MP Idlout. You and I have travelled together, and we've seen what the gap in infrastructure means for people. It means things like overcrowded housing and schools that are in dire need of repair. Even though I get to go and celebrate with communities and do grand openings of schools and water treatment plants, we need to work more quickly.

This is an investment that will help, but we are obviously going to need to invest more as a country.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Minister, I know you need to run. I understand we have agreement from the parties to allow the officials to go, as well.

I apologize for the late start. Votes cannot be controlled by us. Thanks to all of you for being here.

Before we suspend, we'll let the officials go, along with the minister.

I know that Mr. Melillo had a point of order he wanted to raise.

Did you want to raise something, too, Mr. Battiste? Okay.

We'll go to Mr. Melillo first, and then we'll go to Mr. Battiste. I will also explain what's happening with our second panel, and then we'll suspend.

Mr. Melillo.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the minister being here, and I can appreciate the time crunch she was under with the votes. However, it was agreed to, and the expectation was that we would have time for a full hour. I know there are members of all parties who have many important questions to ask—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Just a second, Mr. Melillo.

We'll suspend. We'll get the room cleared, and then we'll come back and will try to get the interpretation working.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We'll get back under way.

We won't jump into our next session. We had a couple of points of order from the previous session that we need to clean up before we go to our second minister of the day.

Minister Vandal, if you and your officials can hold tight for a minute, we're in the middle of a point of order from Mr. Melillo. We'll then go to Mr. Battiste, and then hopefully we can get to our session. I also have some updates.

Mr. Melillo, please go ahead.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will quickly repeat this, because I don't think it was heard before we suspended. Of course we all understand the minister's time crunch with the votes and with the circumstances today that caused the Indigenous Services minister to have to leave early; however, we do have an agreement and an expectation of one hour of questions for that minister.

I know that members of all parties have many more questions, and I would implore our committee to invite her back to finish that time when it's appropriate. I suggest perhaps next week. I understand that we have the Crown-Indigenous Relations minister appearing. Perhaps that could be a time to fit the minister back in.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

I'll come back to this, but first I will go through the speakers list that I have.

Mr. Battiste, we will go to you next.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I will definitely relay that the minister was a hit and that they want her back for sure on that.

Mr. Chair, it's my understanding that there has been some discussion amongst the parties in light of the letter sent by MP Schmale, who's not here today. We want to respect his wishes. We said that the second hour of today would be for Minister Vandal to appear. Minister Anandasangaree will make himself available next Wednesday at a time where we can have him in during our session, with, hopefully, less disturbance in the votes. We all know that the silly season is upon us; we can do our best to make great plans and then the House can throw us off.

That's what I understand the second panel to be and why we have Minister Vandal here today and not Minister Anandasangaree.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

To try to bring those two things together, that was an update I was going to do, along with a couple of other updates.

The motion we had was to invite the three ministers for the two-hour panel today. Then we had Mr. Schmale's letter this morning, asking for one hour with each of the ministers, so it was outside the scope of the motion we were working with. We've heard the request that has been made.

Now, in addition, we've had our time with Minister Hajdu and Indigenous Services Canada cut short. Thinking that I knew where your motion was going, Mr. Melillo, I was able to talk to the minister's officials, and she is amenable to coming back. We need to find time in the calendar.

Now, I will mention a couple of things. The second part of that is that Minister Vandal has agreed to come for this hour, and then Minister Anandasangaree is going to come. They're trying to find time in the calendar, but next Wednesday.... The issue we have there is that we built a full panel for next Wednesday on the taxation study. I need direction from the committee if we want to cancel one of the panels on that study to bring in Minister Anandasangaree, or if we want to request resources for a third hour to do those.

To try to bring Minister Hajdu in at the same time would be challenging, but she is scheduled to come back in a couple of weeks to talk about housing. They are going to look at her schedule to see if she might be able to add half an hour for the main estimates at that point, which would still be before we have to report back.

Those are the balls that I have up in the air here as the chair of the committee. We don't need to decide it at this moment, because I'd like to get into the questions we have, but I wouldn't mind direction at the end of the meeting on whether we'd like to displace one of the panels on the taxation study for next Wednesday with Minister Anandasangaree, or if we would like to request the third hour in case we are able to get those resources. Give that some thought.

In the meantime, Minister Vandal, welcome so much to you and your officials.

Deputy Minister Valerie Gideon, welcome back. You're always a pleasant addition to our table.

We also have with us Darlene Bess, chief, finances, results and delivery officer, and Georgina Lloyd, assistant deputy minister, Northern Affairs.

I'm going to remind everybody, as we did with the first panel, that I'm going to ask us to have one speaker at a time. Last time, we got a bit over top of each other, and it makes it impossible for the meetings to happen. We're trying to go with the protocol that people have a chance to make their statement. They can go as long as they like. When they ask a question, though, I'm going to try to give reasonable time for the minister to respond.

If the person asking the question has heard enough, then I would say to just get the minister's attention and get into your next question, because ultimately this is about the discussions, but we do want the minister to be able to provide an adequate response. If we can't respect that, then we may have to suspend and restore order, but I think we're going to have a good conversation here.

With that, Minister, I will turn the floor over to you for five minutes.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Thank you so much.

It's great to be here again. It seems like I was just here last week.

I'm pleased to be here today to discuss how Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is working with indigenous and northern partners to develop the northern economy, build housing and infrastructure, improve food security and strengthen northern communities.

The 2024-25 main estimates reflect an increase of $1.1 billion for Northern Affairs.

One of the most pressing issues in the north is food security, and the main estimates contain $133 million for nutrition north Canada. We are helping northerners access affordable, healthy food with new budget 2024 investments of $23.2 million for the grocery subsidy and $101.1 million, over three years, for the harvesters support grant, the community food programs fund and food security research. Nutrition north subsidizes food, household items like diapers and soap, and personal hygiene items. The list of subsidized items relies on direct input from people who live in the north. The harvesters support grant was co-developed with indigenous and northern partners and it supports traditional hunting, harvesting and food sharing. In its first year alone, the grant supported 15,000 harvesters, 410 hunts and 717 food-sharing initiatives. Nutrition north alone will not solve food insecurity, but it's a key piece of a long-term strategy to address factors that affect food security, such as income, employment and access to distributors. Through the nutrition north food security research grant, launched in 2022, we are also supporting indigenous-led research projects that will help improve the program.

Our government recognizes the challenges associated with northern housing. That's why we're making historic investments to build housing and address infrastructure gaps. Budget 2024 invests an additional $918 million in indigenous housing and infrastructure. Investments such as these will allow territorial and indigenous governments to improve the overall housing conditions of the north.

Another critical challenge in the north is the dramatic impact of climate change, with the north warming roughly three times faster than the global average. The main estimates contain $67 million for the climate change adaptation and clean energy program, which will support projects in northern and Arctic communities. The federal government is working with communities to mitigate and adapt to the impacts of climate change. For instance, the climate change preparedness in the north program is working to develop northern-led solutions to coastal erosion, permafrost degradation and increased floods and wildfires.

I highlight as well that our department is working to reduce the risk to human and environmental health associated with contaminated sites in the north. The main estimates allocate $713 million to the northern contaminated sites program to manage a portfolio of contaminated sites in Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut. This program demonstrates the department's commitment to self-determination and economic reconciliation through indigenous partners' participation in project governance and the creation of socio-economic benefits.

The main estimates contain $26.2 million for implementing the Nunavut Lands and Resources Devolution Agreement. This agreement represents the largest land transfer in Canadian history, a historic step forward in self-determination for Nunavummiut. Our investments are grounded in the inclusive engagement that took place under the Arctic and northern policy framework, which was co-developed with indigenous and northern partners to reflect their needs and priorities. The framework guides our activities and investments to 2030 and beyond, and aligns our national and international objectives with the priorities of northerners.

The 2024-25 main estimates also strengthen our efforts to defend Canada's sovereignty as we accelerate progress on this and other fronts for the benefit of northern residents, Arctic residents and everyone else in Canada.

Qujannamiik. Marsi. Merci.

It's great to be here again.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you, Minister. You're right on the five-minute mark. I appreciate it.

For this round, we're going to start with Mr. Zimmer.

Mr. Zimmer, you have six minutes. The floor is yours.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here once again.

I want to ask you some specific questions regarding the REACHE program. This is an original program, the target of which is to reduce diesel or gasoline use by seven million litres, one of the programs touted by you, Minister, as a great use of funds collected through the carbon tax.

My first question is how many litres' reduction the program has actually provided.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

That's a great question. Thank you so much for that. We know that the climate is actually changing at three times—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Just a specific number, Minister.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

—the rate of the change in the southern climate, so it's important that we have these sorts of programs.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I reclaim my time.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I do know the northern REACHE program—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Minister, the answer to that question is actually—

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Do you want an answer?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

You just used up your time to answer.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I didn't know you were the chair of this meeting.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Can we pause?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I will pause here. We're just trying to have a good conversation here.

Ask the question as you've done.

Minister, we'll give you a bit of time.