Evidence of meeting #109 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was peoples.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Good morning.
First of all, I'd like to thank you for coming here. What we are discussing today needs a lot of improvement and a lot of reworking.
First, I will ask if you could all respond whether it's your responsibility.... Canada has a reconciliation policy with indigenous peoples, the federal government and its various departments. How does it affect your department, these reconciliation strategies and plans that you have with indigenous peoples?
Lesley, you could go first, and then Robert and then Isabelle, in that order.
11:45 a.m.
Director General, Intergovermental Tax Policy, Department of Finance
Thank you for the question.
Reconciliation, for us within the tax policy branch within the indigenous governments area, is about ensuring we can do everything we can to support and work with partners to advance the agenda of taxation if they wish—
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
I apologize. Maybe I wasn't clear. I will ask again.
Reconciliation is a very important thing. Where did the directive come from to work on reconciliation?
We know there is a universal United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Are you aware of that?
[English]
To ask the question briefly, where do you draw your authority from when you are implementing reconciliation from within your department?
11:50 a.m.
Director General, Intergovermental Tax Policy, Department of Finance
The UN declaration implementation act certainly provides us with a framework and with guidelines to undertake to meet all the terms of the legislation, absolutely.
11:50 a.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
I'd say similarly our department implements the United Nations declaration implementation act, so it's very important for us.
We have units that deal with this specifically. As I mentioned with respect to gaming, there is a unit that deals with UN declaration act implementation. We deal in our unit quite regularly within the context of number 78, which deals specifically with gaming. Some other elements are, for example, forced sterilization, which is another one that's important in relation to criminal justice.
They have a whole mechanism for reaching out to us on those particular issues. Obviously they reach out within the Department of Justice and more broadly to try to address those issues.
I also say that, for me at least, and I think for our department, reconciliation is not just about UNDA implementation. That's one mechanism that's dealing with particular rights, but I would say that every initiative we take on is informed by a desire to advance reconciliation, although not always as far as we might like to do.
11:50 a.m.
Director, Federal, Indigenous and Quebec Affairs Division, Partnerships Directorate, Service, Innovation and Integration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I can add to that.
For the Canada Revenue Agency, it is aware of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and we as a department also are contributing to the implementation of the UNDA action plan.
For us, given our mandate, the focus is really on continuing to build trust and to engage with indigenous partners, but also to customize our services so that we can suit the particular circumstances of indigenous people.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you.
Regarding the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, how do you plan to implement the rights of indigenous peoples under the UN declaration? How do you plan to implement that here?
Perhaps you could respond, Robert.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
As I mentioned, there's a unit within the Department of Justice that implements the United Nations declaration act action plan. There are a number of items, as I mentioned, two specific to criminal law justice that we deal with. They reach out more generally. They have broad processes to try to track what's going on. I couldn't say today, or perhaps ever, in detail what's going to happen with each of them.
I should also highlight that there is separately but related an indigenous justice program strategy that the Department of Justice is leading on. That involves, again, another unit, but they are going out to very many communities across Canada to see what could be done, particularly in the justice space, including criminal law but not just limited to that.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]
Thank you.
Lastly, could you all respond separately to the following questions?
Regarding reconciliation with indigenous peoples in Canada, when you work with indigenous peoples in Canada do you speak their languages? Do you follow their code guidelines? Do you find that their policies and value systems are different from the federal government's?
How do you work it out so that you are able to work together?
11:50 a.m.
Director General, Intergovermental Tax Policy, Department of Finance
With respect to language, I speak English and French but not beyond that. I think we would rely on interpreters as necessary and try to ensure, especially with the Canada Revenue Agency, that there's more and more available in a variety of languages with respect to the tax system so that people can—
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Jamie Schmale
I'm sorry.
I did purposely let everyone go about 30 seconds over. As you noticed, everyone got the same. The reason is that we did start 10 minutes late and it's my understanding that we expect bells around 12:30.
If the committee is okay with it, maybe we can wrap up this round and get into the second hour, if that's okay with everyone.
I see thumbs up. Are we okay with that?
Okay. Then we'll get into the second round because we will have a short period of time there, too.
Thank you to our witnesses. We'll briefly suspend while we set up for the next panel. We appreciate your contributions and appreciate everything that's been going on here.
We'll briefly suspend.
Noon
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Jamie Schmale
Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for your patience as we set up for panel two on our study.
We will have limited time because, like I said earlier, we do expect bells.
Before we get to the witnesses, I just want to deal with something the NDP brought to my attention. I seek the committee's guidance on this. Ms. Idlout was wondering, because her question was not answered, and the interpretation was probably not understood entirely by our witnesses, if she can resubmit her question to the witnesses and the witnesses can then provide a written statement.
Does anyone have any issue with that? No. Perfect. Thank you, everyone.
We are going to go to our second panel of witnesses. We have the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada that is going to kick things off. I think someone is working on their....
It's okay, take your time. Do you want to go to the other one first?
Who wants to go first?
Mr. Wright, it's all you. You have five minutes.
Noon
Rob Wright Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Thank you.
My name is Rob Wright. I'm the associate deputy minister for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for inviting me, along with my colleague Christopher Duschenes, who is the director general responsible for indigenous institutions and governance modernization, to participate in this important study on taxation revenue and economic reconciliation.
Before beginning, I want to acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
We welcome the opportunity to participate in the committee's study and to outline how Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is working collaboratively with first nations to support them in shaping their economic futures.
Of course, we're not doing this work alone with first nations. While we support the First Nations Tax Commission and the other institutions of the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, Finance Canada, as you saw, is the lead department on taxation, and its leadership and collaborative work in this space are critical. Similarly, colleagues at Indigenous Services Canada and, from the previous hour, the Department of Justice and other departments play vitally important roles.
Historically, through colonial systems and structures, the federal government actively impeded the ability of indigenous peoples to participate in and contribute to Canada's economy. Today, we recognize those harms and their long-term negative impacts, and CIRNAC, along with other federal departments, is working to renew our relationship and support indigenous self-determination and the full participation of indigenous peoples in Canada's economy.
One way we're doing this is through the First Nations Fiscal Management Act and the four independent first nations-run fiscal institutions, which provide first nations with the support and tools to strengthen their communities and build their economies. First nations choose whether to participate in and to leverage authorities under the act.
Almost two-thirds of first nations are now scheduled under the act, with many of them taking full advantage of these economic tools. While all first nations can pass bylaws related to the taxation of land under section 83 of the Indian Act, the First Nations Fiscal Management Act provides first nations with authorities similar to those of municipal governments in the areas of financial management, property taxation and local revenues, as well as financing for infrastructure and economic and social development.
To date, 160 first nations have enacted property taxation laws under this act, and another 27 are taxing land use under section 83 of the Indian Act, collecting almost $125 million annually. Taxation allows first nations to collect stable, local revenues from land uses such as agricultural permits and leases, oil, gas and timber leases, commercial and residential leases and utilities. First nations then choose how to invest these revenues according to their own priorities.
That's just one of the ways that communities are taking control of their own future.
Before the First Nations Fiscal Management Act came into force in 2006, first nations governments did not have access to affordable long-term capital like other governments. Owing to historical barriers stemming from the Indian Act, first nations were charged prohibitive interest rates and banks were reluctant to lend.
The situation is very different today. Communities exercising powers under the act have received nearly two billion dollars in loans from the First Nations Finance Authority. That money is used for community development, which is the very definition of economic self-determination.
In addition, these communities score higher on the community well-being index.
Collectively, these authorities and supports are advancing reconciliation, self-determination and socio-economic development in first nations in line with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. A living example of this was the codevelopment with indigenous partners of amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, Bill C-45, which passed in Parliament just last June.
This collaborative approach is also consistent with the government's commitment to modern treaties and self-government arrangements, which cover over 40% of Canada's land mass.
They establish relationships between the Crown and indigenous peoples, and provide indigenous governments with the ability to generate revenue through direct taxes.
The full inclusion of indigenous peoples in the economy could mean tens of billions of dollars in growth to Canada's GDP. For example, a recent report from the Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nations Chiefs Secretariat found that indigenous economies had a direct contribution of $3.6 billion in 2020 to the Atlantic economy alone.
Despite the progress that has been made—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Jamie Schmale
I'm sorry, Mr. Wright. You're about 40 seconds over, if you want to wrap it up.
12:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Despite the progress that has been made, there is still a long way to go, and we will continue to support first nations, Métis and Inuit communities on the path to self-determination and economic prosperity.
Thank you. Merci. Meegwetch.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Jamie Schmale
Thank you.
I apologize for rushing you there. I didn't know how much you had left.
I have Indigenous Services up next. I don't know who is going to go, so I'll pass the floor to whoever wants to speak.
12:05 p.m.
Michelle Kovacevic Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
I, too, would like to acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional and unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
My name is Michelle. I'm the associate deputy minister at Indigenous Services Canada, and I'm joined by my colleague Jessica Sultan—in a very tangled earpiece—who is the director general of our economic policy development branch.
Today, I'll be discussing how my department is following the example of indigenous leaders, and working with them to eliminate systemic barriers to economic development and support greater self-determination.
Economic reconciliation, whether through supporting indigenous entrepreneurs, enabling job creation in indigenous communities or helping ensure that indigenous peoples have access to the capital they need for equity in major projects, is about making sure that everyone has equitable access to economic opportunity. This will be achieved by supporting and responding to priorities brought forward by indigenous leaders and by taking responsible action to remove economic barriers. This is something we aspire to do at Indigenous Services Canada.
I'd like to highlight very briefly some of the key programs that target economic development. Budget 2024, as you probably know, announced $350 million for the aboriginal entrepreneurship program to continue to support indigenous enterprises and help them access affordable capital. This investment will enable job creation and stimulate economic activity in indigenous communities.
The indigenous loan guarantee program is an additional tool to ensure that indigenous communities have access to affordable capital in order to optimize indigenous equity participation in major projects. We also have an initiative called the strategic partnerships initiative, which builds capacity for indigenous participation in economic development opportunities, such as local, economically sustainable clean-energy projects.
Through partnerships with many federal departments, provincial and territorial governments, as well as non-federal groups, the strategic partnerships initiative helps to fill gaps in existing federal programs and mobilize other sources of funding to provide indigenous communities with as much economic development support as possible.
The federal government is also supporting economic reconciliation by driving demand to indigenous businesses via the implementation of a requirement to ensure that at least 5% of the value of government contracts is awarded to businesses owned and controlled by indigenous peoples, and by respecting modern treaties that include procurement obligations.
Finally, the development of an economic reconciliation framework will unlock opportunities to advance self-determination and economic reconciliation by ensuring that indigenous peoples can meaningfully participate in and shape the decisions that make economic growth possible.
Indigenous peoples will set their own economic objectives to achieve their vision of economic prosperity and well-being.
We know there's a lot more work to do when it comes to advancing indigenous economic reconciliation, but we're up for the task.
I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have.
Thank you.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Jamie Schmale
Thank you very much to our friends here from CIRNAC and Indigenous Services.
We start with the Conservatives. I think it is Mr. Shields for six minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
Mr. Wright, you probably heard me ask a question earlier. I'll ask you the same one. When we talk about land that they have, are you aware of first nations that have fee simple, actual, individual landownership on nations?
12:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Thank you very much for the question. I may, in a moment, turn this to my colleague at ISC, who may have more details.
Certainly, Mr. Shields, there are many examples of first nations communities having ownership of fee simple land.