Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Are there any examples where the models already exist? If we're seeing how they're doing, are there positive results?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I'm sorry, Mr. McLeod. We might have to save that for another round or perhaps have our other colleagues get an answer to that question.

Monsieur Lemire, the clock is yours.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A review of indigenous economic reconciliation needs to address all aspects of self-determination and first nations jurisdiction with a view to supporting self-government. An issue that warrants particular attention as part of that review involves the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, or CAP.

Canada and CAP signed a political accord on December 5, 2018, but it has produced little in the way of tangible measures. It's a fact that it is primarily CAP employees who are active in urban areas, where many indigenous people end up. They face an array of challenges from lack of housing and homelessness to mental health, addiction and justice issues, not to mention language-related barriers.

Resources urgently need to be allocated.

In concrete terms, what can be done to help fund the necessary services?

Also, under the circumstances, how can we strengthen CAP's authority, leadership and ability to act so that it can effectively help its members?

[Jessica Sultan]

In keeping with how Michelle described the economic reconciliation framework, the way the department is moving forward right now is by really doing our utmost to put the decision-making in the hands of indigenous peoples, where this is possible—everywhere this is possible—so all of those areas you just mentioned would be the same in terms of hearing directly from indigenous peoples on what the needs are, what the priorities are and what the best way to help is, because indigenous peoples know what they need.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You're absolutely right.

That said, are you currently in contact with the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples to help bring about those things?

As far as I know, there haven't been any discussions in quite a while, and the accord was signed in 2018.

What has changed since 2018?

[Jessica Sultan]

With regard to the specific agreement you're speaking to, I can speak to how we work with the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples from the perspective of economic development at Indigenous Services Canada. However, with regard to the entire government and the different areas that may have been involved with that agreement, I wouldn't be in a position and I don't believe any of us would be in a position to speak to all components of that, unless, perhaps, Deputy Wright...?

[Rob Wright]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Lemire.

As Ms. Sultan mentioned, the entire federal government has a role. The issues facing indigenous peoples in urban settings are crucially important. Of course, we agree with that.

Measures have been taken to improve the situation of indigenous peoples in urban areas. For example, the 2023 budget included measures and a $4‑billion investment to implement the urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy. Many measures are multi-faceted, including the situation in urban areas.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'd like to talk about the First Nations Finance Authority, also known as the FNFA. The authority has many obligations, including implementing internal controls and safeguards to ensure that its members are financially secure. In a nutshell, these efforts are meant to provide members with credibility and support investments, and that work is recognized.

Would you be willing to consider some of the FNFA's recommendations? In particular, would you be willing to let the FNFA serve as the guarantor for on-reserve first nations entrepreneurs?

Currently, that option isn't available to entrepreneurs, but it's one way to support housing construction and the monetization of federal transfers. It would also help the FNFA to accelerate financing and infrastructure development, as well as to pursue its plans for community asset protection based on a pooled risk model for property and liability insurance.

Those are three small measures that could make a difference, especially as regards the housing crisis. They would also allow organizations, particularly well-structured organizations like the FNFA, to work towards overcoming the indigenous housing crisis in a practical way.

[Rob Wright]

Thank you for your question. You raise an important point.

I'll say a few words, and then my colleague Mr. Duschenes can provide some additional information.

Last year, in fact, we made changes to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, and those changes were recommended by the organization itself. More changes are possible going forward. I believe last year was the third time the act had undergone changes, so that is a possibility as time goes on.

It's like building a foundation one brick at a time. However, the key thing is that the changes we made to the fiscal management act last year that this committee engaged on were changes that were brought by the institutions themselves. Therefore, over the next few years, they will be assessing other opportunities for further modernizing and strengthening the fiscal management act. They will bring forward those proposals, and this committee will be engaged on that.

I don't know if there's anything else—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Actually, we're way over time. We are almost a minute over time.

Thank you very much for your responses.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Meegwetch.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Ms. Idlout, you now have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

First, I would like to thank you all for coming here to do your presentations. Your responses are very helpful.

I would like to start out by explaining with a preamble that the federal government wants to proceed ahead with any decisions or activities. It makes decisions about taxes and monies, and these are reliant on laws, which is why I will be asking questions of the presenters here.

I will ask you my question: As department heads, where do you draw your authority from when it comes to acting on reconciliation?

If you could respond to it individually.... Thank you.

[Michelle Kovacevic]

Thank you for the question.

If I understand, you're asking on what authority we act.

First and foremost, the Government of Canada has made a commitment to economic reconciliation. Economic reconciliation means that the Government of Canada and I—as a public servant, quite frankly, and one of the department heads—recognize that there has been harm done in the past. There have been barriers imposed on indigenous peoples in Canada, hence the need to reconcile.

The Government of Canada and indigenous partnerships have come together and acknowledged this. This is reinforced by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and the calls to action, in what we're hearing out of the inquiry on the missing and murdered, and in what we're hearing in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: that when nations and people in those nations recognize that there have been injustices and things that need to be repaired, they come together and make space for reconciliation and healing and for a better way forward.

I draw and the department draws authority from that which is real internationally and nationally but also personally, as a Canadian and as a public servant. I'm very committed to making Canada better for all of us.

Thank you.

[Rob Wright]

Thank you very much for the question. To add to Michelle's wise words, it is a combination of the mandate of the ministry and such pieces of important legislation as the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

In the area of economic reconciliation, there are a few key components that drive our activities to work with indigenous peoples to ensure that there's full participation in decision-making, that indigenous peoples are able to enjoy their own means of subsistence and development, and that indigenous peoples are able to determine their own priorities and strategies and to shape their own economic future. It's really about self-determination in the end.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but we need unanimous consent to continue. I see that the bells are ringing.

Ms. Idlout, you're at about three minutes and 32 seconds. I was a bit lenient, so we have probably three or so minutes.

Do we have unanimous consent to continue through the bells?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair]

Ms. Idlout, the floor is back to you.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

When you think about reconciliation, considering the mandate of reconciliation and economic reconciliation, how do you work with indigenous peoples when federal laws are in conflict with indigenous laws? How do you resolve those conflicts?

[Rob Wright]

Thank you very much for the question.

I think that gets right to the heart of reconciliation. It's reconciling the sovereignty of indigenous peoples and the sovereignty of the Crown.

I think that's an example of Bill C-45 and the amendments to the fiscal management act. All of those proposals were codeveloped. Codeveloping and working together to reconcile pieces of legislation and laws and jurisdiction when we're talking about tax jurisdiction, where first nations and other indigenous communities may be taking up jurisdiction, as MP McLeod's question indicated, all have implications for provincial and territorial governments. It requires working through those various considerations to make sure you move from tension to making sure that things can be aligned. It takes time, and it's hard work.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Perfect—you're a minute early.

I see the bells are ringing, so we are going to vote.

We've done the business and agreed on the meetings. We'll see each other on Wednesday.

Thank you to our witnesses. Thank you everyone, and we'll see Patrick Weiler momentarily.

The meeting is adjourned.