Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you.

Mr. Powlowski, you still have another minute and 20 seconds.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'll turn it over to Ms. Gainey.

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I had a question for Dr. Ottmann, if she's still online with us.

I was curious about the capacity building of the FNU and how you are building knowledge of economic development capacity through the university. How could we perhaps better support or, through the university, offer more support to some of the regions that have fewer resources or less capacity?

It seems like there's an uneven reality across the country in terms of capacity and resources. I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit about that and perhaps about what FNU can do in that regard.

[Dr. Jacqueline Ottmann]

Thank you for that question.

For First Nations University of Canada, one of the principles that we have is being responsive to communities across the country.

An example of that is that we are certifying a Mohawk language program in Fort Erie. We've had programs in Northwest Territories. Many of our newest programs will begin in northern Saskatchewan, in Black Lake and Hatchet Lake, which are way north. They came to us and asked us for a social work program. We are nimble enough to be able to start that program this coming September for that community.

We do have an indigenous business program. Within that program, financial literacy is part of the learning. There are leadership and executive programs that are available to first nation leaders and their teams. The institute will also broaden the scope of our reach and the capacity that we could help develop within first nation communities and organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Dr. Ottmann. I'm afraid I'm going to have to stop you again.

With that, we're going to briefly suspend while we get Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik logged on here.

We'll briefly suspend. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm going to call this meeting back to order.

Before going to Mr. Kyikavichik for his five-minute opening statement, I'll just say that, given the changes to our schedule today, I'm going to give each party four minutes for questioning after Grand Chief Kyikavichik's opening remarks.

With that, Grand Chief, I will give you the floor for five minutes.

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik, Gwich'in Tribal Council]

Màhsi’.

Drin gwiinzii. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable committee members.

My name is Ken Kyikavichik, and I'm the grand chief of the Gwich'in Tribal Council of the Northwest Territories and Yukon.

Gwich'in Tribal Council, or GTC for short, was established in 1992 with the signing of the Gwich'in Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement. We work in collaboration with the governments of Canada, the Northwest Territories and the Yukon in implementing this modern-day treaty for our over 3,500 participants who reside across this country. Our communities are located in the Mackenzie delta region of the Northwest Territories and are known today as Aklavik; Inuvik; Tetl'it Zheh, or Fort McPherson as it's now known; and Tsiigehtchic.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee on tax revenues on first nations territories. This is an important issue and an opportunity that impacts the economic development and self-sufficiency of our region.

Today I would like to raise a few points for your consideration as you undertake this study. First are the distinctions between modern treaty holders, such as the Gwich'in Tribal Council and first nations on reserve, for example, in southern Canada. Second is the Gwich'in interest in establishing tax-free zones both within our Gwich'in settlement region and in areas where we decide to invest. Third is the role that tax revenues can play in achieving economic reconciliation.

For a bit more context, the Gwich'in were signatories to the last numbered treaty in Canada, Treaty 11, which was signed in our communities of Tsiigehtchic and Tetl'it Zheh in July 1921. At the time, many of us were known as Locheux Indians. We lived a nomadic, subsistence lifestyle in our traditional territory, supplementing our living by participating in the fur industry.

Treaty 11 was the only treaty in Canada that did not create reserves for the Dene of the Northwest Territories. The only reserves in the Northwest Territories today are located in Treaty 8 territory in the South Slave region near Hay River and Fort Smith.

I'm back to my first point that it is crucial to recognize the distinct circumstances and needs of the various indigenous groups and nations across Canada. First nations in the Prairies, for example, face unique challenges compared to non-treaty first nations in areas such as B.C. and modern treaty holders in the north such as the Gwich'in. Each of us has differing legal, social and economic contexts that must be considered when discussing tax revenues and economic policy. Métis and non-status indigenous peoples face their own challenges, as you are well aware, particularly related to recognition and access to programs and services.

Second, the Gwich'in Tribal Council is interested in establishing tax-free zones within our Gwich'in settlement region and in other locations where we have participants located in cities such as Yellowknife, Whitehorse and Edmonton. These would be tax-free zones and not reserves. It is an important delineation here. It would provide tax benefits to our citizens and businesses and create opportunities for us to invest in southern centres.

Finally, we are also seeking the ability to impose sales and excise taxes on non-indigenous citizens who may utilize our businesses. Our potential future government would then be able to invest back into our communities to improve the infrastructure and services that we provide. This would directly allow for some wealth redistribution to reduce our current reliance on federal funding to provide the infrastructure, programming and services that we offer. It would be a critical step towards the achievement of economic reconciliation.

Whether it is economic development or protection of our lands and essential resources such as the Porcupine caribou, upholding the rights and the interests of the Gwich'in has been and will continue to be our priority.

To be a truly sovereign nation, our nations, our language, our traditions, lands and resources need to be governed in a fulsome and responsible manner. We believe that potential tax revenues and tax exemptions that are afforded to other levels of government at the current time, whether it is in a self-governing environment or not, will help us achieve this. In order to be effective, such legislation must recognize the jurisdictional difference between indigenous nations, the complementary role that tax-free zones for indigenous businesses and governments can play, and the ability of indigenous governments to implement sales and excise taxes on non-residents accessing these services as a means to enhance these programs and services into the future.

While the study on tax revenues is positive, like anything, the true measure of success will be in its implementation and its applicability to such northern nations as the Gwich'in.

Hài'. Thank you for your time and the opportunity to present today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Grand Chief.

As mentioned earlier, we will do an abridged four-minute round for each party, starting with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Shields, you have four minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation. I appreciate your being here to make the presentation today.

MP Bob Zimmer said to say hello, so on his behalf, I'll pass along that message.

I think one thing you said strongly was that one size does not fit all. You were talking about a modern treaty versus historical treaties. Could you quickly define the difference between those and the economic reality of it?

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

Do I just answer directly, or do I go through the committee chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Grand Chief, you can direct your answers through the chair. Go ahead and answer, please.

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

The last numbered treaty was signed in 1921. That was Treaty 11, as I mentioned here. It allowed us the ability to continue our subsistence lifestyle while also recognizing the rights we have to this region. It granted us a whopping five dollars a year for each man, woman and child. There were also provisions for minor payments to chiefs and headmen. It was very limited in its application, and the implementation even more so.

Fast-forward 70 years to the modern treaties, as they are now known, or the comprehensive claims policy, which was an effort by indigenous nations, such as the Gwich'in, to sign modern treaties. It provided some real dollars and some fee simple lands to areas within our traditional territory. It has allowed for a level of economic reconciliation by providing the dollars we require to provide programming and services to our people, to better implement our agreements and to reshape our relationship with mainly the Government of Canada and others.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

One of the comments we've heard is with regard to the grant structure of annual grants that you might get for economic development. You're talking about a very different structure as compared with an annual grant application style of economic development. You're talking about a very enlarged structure of governance and taxing policy. How soon do you think this could be implemented?

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

It could be implemented within the next five years, if we so desire. It's all dependent on our current negotiations. We are one of the few modern treaty holders in Canada who does not yet have self-government. When we signed our agreement back in 1992, we anticipated that self-government would follow shortly thereafter. We didn't anticipate the millennium passing and us not having self-government. For a variety of reasons, we have been negotiating for over 24 years. Taxation has been a key impediment in the past to our achieving resolution of an agreement.

As many of you will know, the federal government had a policy that required indigenous nations who were finalizing self-governments to sign away tax exemptions afforded to their status Indian citizens. That has changed in recent years, which allows us and paves a way for us to finalize an agreement sooner rather than later. However, there are many technical differences that need to be sorted out through the negotiations process. We are one of the nations who hope to have governing and jurisdiction authority upon day one of the execution of our agreement. Taxation is a key element of our fiscal package that we are looking to negotiate with Canada.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

For 24 years, the big barrier has been the tax challenge...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm afraid, Mr. Shields, the four minutes has elapsed. I'm sure there will be other colleagues who will probably get, or I hope will get, to the same questions.

With that, I'd like to turn the floor over to Mr. McLeod for four minutes.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Grand Chief, for joining us. I appreciate your comments on this very important issue.

Maybe we could continue along the same line as the discussion you had with MP Shields. You were talking about what it takes to run a government and the dependable revenue streams that are required. In most of the self-governing nations, they look at a number of different ways to raise revenues to operate their government. They look at the core funding they get from the federal government, program funding, dividends from businesses, royalties and taxation.

Can you quickly discuss the importance of taxation powers for the Gwich’in Tribal Council as you move forward with your self-government negotiations?

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

I resided for almost a decade in the city of Saskatoon. In Saskatoon are Chief Darcy Bear and the Whitecap Dakota First Nation.

As you may be aware, the Whitecap Dakota has been able, in the span of—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Mr. Chair, interpretation is not possible because of the poor sound quality.

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

Am I talking too quickly?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Grand Chief, we're hearing from the interpreters that it might be helpful if you moved the boom up slightly—maybe a couple of centimetres.

Speak a bit, and we'll see what the interpreters say.

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

Okay.

As I mentioned earlier, the Whitecap Dakota has been able, in the span of three decades—

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

I'm sorry. Grand Chief. We're going to have to pause again. I don't believe that's made much of a difference.

Grand Chief, I'm hearing from our technicians here. If you're comfortable with taking out the blur of the background, it might allow for the sound to come through more clearly. Is that okay?

[Grand Chief Ken Kyikavichik]

Okay. Does that help?

I'm regretting my decision to not put up an Edmonton Oilers flag in the background. Thankfully, I have my coffee cup.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're being told that the interpreter can summarize what is being said. It's a compromise, but it's not ideal.