With respect to the publicly paid system, there has to be some kind of minimum standard for income. This is not intended to be universal legal care we're talking about here. What that minimum income is can be negotiated. Whether it's the basic poverty level, whatever that may be, or something above that or below that, it has to be something that will....
Here's my concern. If someone has been charged for shoplifting, that will affect their whole life. They may have a defence, they may not, but they should be aware of their rights and dealt with accordingly. If they have a defence, they should be entitled to it and they should use it. These issues that come up are so important to a person's life. They need the ability to deal with it in a knowledgeable manner. As I said, even the middle class is having some difficulty.
I'm going to go off on a bit of tangent here, if I may. I'm speaking for myself here, not for the CBA. There's more than one path to justice. I think we should be looking at alternatives to going to court whether it's mediation or.... Actually, our access to justice report talked about having a system of triage where people coming into the justice system can be diverted to mediation, or counselling, or to court. There are various ideas. They won't cost much money. People may still need some legal services, but it would be minimized and more timely.
Timeliness is so important in this system. I'm told that in many areas of Ontario if you're asking for a Superior Court trial or civil court trial, you're looking two years into the future. Part of the reason for this is that the criminal system has to be given priority because of the recent Supreme Court decisions. However, justice delayed, as we all know, is justice denied, and it increases costs for everyone. It's not just a case of that. We have to find ways to find efficiencies, make things move faster, and still provide justice to individuals.