Public Accounts Committee on June 18th, 2024

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

I come back to my previous question about tax havens. How far do the RCMP's powers and its ability to act legally, as you said, allow you to go during an investigation?

Does this allow you to verify banking transactions, such as money transfers between Canadian accounts, for example accounts belonging to public servants, and accounts set up in tax havens?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

The RCMP's investigation can extend internationally, in collaboration with our partners. If I go back to the example you gave, as soon as we discover a link between an amount of money deposited in a tax haven account and a person in Canada, we look for information that would enable us to lay charges if need be.

Of course, we need to work together with the countries in question. This is not always easy when it comes to tax havens. It's up to us to demonstrate a link and make every effort to obtain the necessary information.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do your investigations often lead you to tax havens?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I'm not in a position to give you a figure, but let's just say that we are aware of the existence of tax havens. When we carry out investigations into money laundering, they regularly lead us there.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do the host countries of tax havens usually co‑operate with the RCMP?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I'm not in a position to say how many times tax havens have agreed to co‑operate with us. Obviously, I would have to search all of the organization's operational files.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Generally speaking, is it rare for countries to agree to co‑operate with the RCMP or, on the contrary, is it quite common?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I have not been exposed to that. So I don't have any information on whether it goes well or not.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

You've never been exposed to that?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I, personally, have never been exposed to that during my career as an investigator.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Is it the same thing with the ArriveCAN app case?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I can't give any details about a specific investigation. There again, there is nothing to indicate that the investigation will lead to tax havens. As I said earlier, we are gathering information, we are continuing our investigation and we will go where the investigation takes us.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Nevertheless, David Yeo, who is at the centre of the whole ArriveCAN app affair, has accounts in tax havens. That has been mentioned several times. He had no legitimate reason to have accounts in tax havens, unless he has an interest in international trade. Apparently, that is why this man was opening accounts in tax havens.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Up next is Mr. Desjarlais. You have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to ask a few more questions about ArriveCAN, since you're here in relation to that.

How is the RCMP ensuring the integrity of the investigations that are currently under way?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

Our investigation is being governed by multiple processes.

Number one, we have what is referred to as a command triangle. That's an independent group of individuals who determine what actions will be taken. There is oversight under a criminal operations officer within the area where that investigation is being conducted.

From a headquarters perspective, we also have a governance role, whereby there is regular reporting and oversight on a broad number of operations across the country. They use that for multiple purposes—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Just as a matter of time.... Thank you for that response.

Can you elaborate on what the charges would be in general for anyone who has falsified documents or task authorizations, or has overbilled the government using fraudulent information?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

In a broad context not specific to any investigation, I think you used the key word at the start of your question, when you described the activity as fraud. There are potential offences such as that.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

What would that mean? What kinds of charges?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

Fraud.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'm sorry. What kind of criminal penalty would that entail?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

I would have to go back to the Criminal Code. I don't remember the exact penalties for those sections.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

That's okay.

Given that both the parliamentary committee and the RCMP are investigating similar issues and may end up with similar evidence, how do you protect the integrity of key evidence from being leaked, for instance?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

During our criminal investigations, there are expectations that our investigators will conduct themselves appropriately and professionally. There are internal consequences and there are potential criminal consequences for them leaking information. With respect to other bodies and entities that are conducting similar investigations, they'd be governed by whatever rules apply to those areas.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Previously, you implied that there were multiple investigations running in parallel. Will Canadians have to wait for all investigations to be concluded, or will we hear results as you arrive at them?