Public Accounts Committee on June 18th, 2024

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

There are numerous things. There are civil liabilities, and depending on the circumstances that led to that scenario, there are additional penalties or consequences that could arrive—neglect of duty, etc.—if the conduct was so outrageous or egregious.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Can the RCMP compel information from the government or its agencies to aid investigations?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

Again, it goes to what I said earlier. That's provided we use the right format to obtain the information, such as going before the courts to have the government departments release the information, so that the information could be used in a judicial proceeding.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

While the law applies to everyone equally, it may not be distributed evenly between the public and private sectors.

Are you obliged to provide information to separate arms of Parliament, such as the AG, if the information and investigation you conducted do not lead you to pursue criminal charges?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

We can be obliged based on their authorities and their audits, again, through various processes that are in place for exchange of information between organizations.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Do you believe there is greater oversight over the public service rather than the private service?

Considering the level of scrutiny, oversight and regulations that public service employees are required to follow, how do you feel this impacts third party contractors such as GC Strategies, who work with the public service?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I am not aware of the oversight practices that exist in the private sector, nor am I aware of all the oversight practices that exist in the government departments, so I would not be at liberty to respond.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I don't think I have any further questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay. That is not a problem.

Thank you, Commissioner Duheme and Deputy Commissioner Flynn, for your testimony and participation in relation to the study of “Report 1: ArriveCAN”.

You can provide any additional information to the clerk. Please ask her if you have any questions.

I don't think there'll be a problem with this, because you've been very forthcoming today, within the limitations you had outlined. Generally, we do like to have information from witnesses within about three weeks. If you hit an obstacle, please let us know, and we'll take that under consideration.

Again, I want to thank you both for being here today and for being flexible with your schedules.

I will excuse the witnesses. Gentlemen, you're free to go.

I will just proceed to some brief committee business, because I don't want to keep members here for any longer than necessary. I remind all members that should you or your staff wish to consult the unredacted statement of work, please email the committee inbox, that's the public accounts email, to schedule time with the clerk this week.

Now, quickly before I leave, there was a discussion, and I am happy to bring this back to us on Thursday. I don't think there'll be any concern on this. Let me go through it.

Before we leave, I'd like to present report 2 and report 3 of the subcommittee.

Here is the second report:

Your Subcommittee met on Tuesday, June 4, 2024, to consider the business of the committee and agreed to make the following recommendations:

1. That the committee dedicate one meeting to Report 1, ArriveCAN, of the 2024 Reports of the Auditor General of Canada and one meeting to the consideration of draft reports prior to the summer period. 2. That the 2024 Reports 5 to 7 of the Auditor General, referred to the committee on Tuesday, June 3, 2024, be the next reports studied by the committee.

Does the committee wish to concur in this report?

Obviously, the first point is moot because a subsequent motion passed by this committee has changed this, so there will not be another ArriveCAN report before we rise.

Could I look for agreement to concur in this? I'm seeing yes. I'm seeing no disagreement.

(Motion agreed to)

Okay, that is concurred in.

Again, please put your earpieces in.

Here is the third report:

Your Subcommittee met on Monday, June 17, 2024, to consider the business of the committee and agreed to make the following recommendation: 1. That, in regard to the committee's study of Report 6, Sustainable Development Technology Canada, of the 2024 Reports 5 to 7 of the Auditor General of Canada, that each party send a prioritized list of witnesses to the clerk by Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 5 p.m.

Is that concurred in? That is to have witnesses for that next report by September 3.

Yes, Ms. Yip, go ahead.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have a question on the June 4 report. It says here, “one meeting to the consideration of draft reports prior to the summer period.”

How will we fit that in?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Do you mean the previous one?

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

As I said, that is moot, so unless you would like me to squeeze it in, I was not planning on squeezing it in.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I just thought on Thursday, if we're coming anyway, we could do the draft reports instead of the SDTC reports.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

As I said, that is moot because this committee passed a motion to have the witnesses in next Thursday.

That one has already been concurred in. Can I go back to this subcommittee meeting from yesterday? Could I have it concurred in that witnesses will not come until the end of the summer?

Mrs. Shanahan, go ahead.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I believe it's that we are to provide our list of witnesses—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's it, yeah.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

—for September 3, so then meetings will be held afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes.

Is that concurred in?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you, more to the Conservative members.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Hey, come on.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

No, it's to all of you.

The committee has concurred in that as well.

I will adjourn this meeting, unless there's anything else.

The meeting is adjourned. We'll see you Thursday.