Public Accounts Committee on June 20th, 2024

[Karen Hogan]

It's my understanding that the individual in question left the board earlier, in 2020 or 2021. I'm not a hundred per cent sure.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It was in 2021.

[Karen Hogan]

When we approached this, we weren't looking at targeting individuals. We went in to see the process that the foundation had in place, and we found significant lapses in how they managed conflicts of interest.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I know. I wasn't asking about an individual, but one would assume that if an auditor saw that over $200 million—or at least $100 million while she was on the board—went to companies that a director was...it would raise a flag and somebody would have said something.

With that in mind, Mr. Chair, I would like to move a motion, if I could.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Do you want to give all your time to the NDP?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I already did that earlier.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just wait one second, Mr. Perkins, before you begin. You do have the floor, but have you sent the motion to the clerk?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It has been sent.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I forwarded the motion to the clerk to distribute to members:

That, given the Auditor General's audit of Sustainable Development and Technology Canada and given government-appointed board members approved:

a. $59 million towards ten ineligible projects;

b. $76 million towards ninety projects in which board members had conflicts of interest that violated internal conflict of interest policies and violated the Canada Foundation for Sustainable Development Technology Act;

c. $259 million towards ninety-six projects in which board members held conflicts of interest; and

d. $58 million towards projects without ensuring contribution agreement terms were met;

the committee express extreme concern with the blatant disregard of taxpayer funds, call on the Minister of Innovation, Science, and Industry to recoup these funds for Canadian taxpayers within 100 days following the adoption of this motion and report this matter to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Perkins, wait one second. You'll be able to speak to the motion, but when you were reading it out, you said you added the SDTC act; you added a few words. Were those words in the motion you sent to the clerk?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We can—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Once it's sent, the motion is out there.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Do it however you want to do it. I would—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I would like you to tell me right now if you added a few words verbally that you would like added to the motion that was sent to the clerk.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Paragraph b reads, “violated internal conflict of interest policies”, and I would add “and violated the SDTC act”.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Perhaps we should suspend so we can all have clear language—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to do that. My next step was to get the motion to you before we spoke to it. I wanted to clarify it because he said one thing and I believe he sent something else in. Just give me a second and we'll get this sorted out.

I will suspend for a minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I call the meeting back to order.

Before I turn the floor over to Mr. Perkins, I want to first thank our witnesses for coming in today. You're excused. I'll let you get on with your evening. We'll continue with committee business. We don't need you here for this.

The motion has been circulated.

Mr. Perkins, you have the floor.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, I'd like to be put on the speaking list.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I don't want to prolong the evening. The motion is self-evident, and we've had a lot of discussion over a number of meetings. The Auditor General's report is very clear that almost half the transactions in the five-year period were conflicted. There's no way that four directors represented half the entire industry, given the odds of that statistically, and that it was just a fluke that half of what went out of the billion-dollar slush fund just happened to go to their companies.

It's very clear from the evidence trail that there was massive influence by these Liberal directors right down through the system, even in having their rejected projects resubmitted so they could be funded, through funds set up by the board, completely outside of the terms that Parliament set out for the money in the fund. We want the money paid back. It was given to companies that had an undue insider track and were given favouritism by the Liberal-appointed directors of the Prime Minister. They used it to feather their own bank accounts and profit from the taxpayer.

They broke two acts of Parliament. They broke the Conflict of Interest Act for public office holders, which says you cannot take a public office position and benefit from it personally, other than the small stipends of a couple of hundred dollars a month you may get for serving on a board. You cannot profit from it—neither you nor your family. The SDTC act also says you and your family cannot profit from the decisions of the board and the organization when you're on the board. It doesn't say that if you recuse yourself from the room, it's okay to profit from the decisions of the board, as if you vote for mine, I vote for yours and he votes for his, and it's all one happy family giving each other money. That's clearly a conspiracy to commit fraud on the taxpayer for the personal benefit of board members, which is why it's being turned over to the RCMP.

The 168 conflicted projects and the 10 that were clearly outside the Auditor General.... To me, that money needs to be repaid. It's an abuse of the taxpayer for the personal benefit of Liberal insiders. That's why we've moved this motion.

We think this is not difficult. The list is there. The Auditor General has it. The amount of money is there. It's not as complicated as people say it is. They got the money under circumstances that weren't warranted and it should be repaid.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I find it quite telling that we are receiving this surprise motion after the House has risen for the summer and after there has been a consistent and blatant attempt to malign and disregard our public service and corrode the value of our democratic institutions. I say this because of the text of the motion and the language the Conservatives continue to use, day in and day out, in saying the Liberals did this, the Liberal government did that. The reality of the matter is that the majority of these folks were appointed by their government 10 years ago.