Public Accounts Committee on June 20th, 2024

[Sheryl Urie]

I was about to respond.

The concern with all projects is ensuring that we have a project that's clearly defined. I had expressed my concerns with the ALUS project and said that we needed to ensure we had an appropriate budget for the project and understood the costs that would be—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

At any time, did you have SDTC staff working to ensure there were appropriate budgets and compliance for companies that applied and didn't meet that standard?

[Sheryl Urie]

Every budget that comes to the organization is reviewed.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is it common to have staff within SDTC working proactively for an organization to help create budgets and compliance?

[Sheryl Urie]

I don't believe SDTC creates budgets for projects.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's never happened. You've never had staff work on a project to help bring somebody into compliance. Is that your testimony today?

[Sheryl Urie]

No. What happens with budgets that come to the organization is they are received from the companies and reviewed. Part of that review is to ensure that the companies understand the eligibility requirements of the fund. We don't want budgets coming in that have ineligible costs—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is it common practice to have staff work on compliance retroactively, after the case and after the approval? It's a simple yes-or-no question. Is it common to have them work on projects?

[Sheryl Urie]

If reporting comes back from companies that is not within our eligible cost buckets and is not clearly within the scope of the project, then yes, as part of our review process, we would inform the company that it needs to—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You would then have your staff work on it.

[Sheryl Urie]

There would be, within our finance organization, folks who address those issues.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Ms. Urie, why did the SDTC board and executive team approve the ALUS ecosystem and give it $5 million in taxpayers' money when the CEO had a conflict, it was ineligible and it had no budget or compliance, especially when other companies never get this type of preferential treatment?

[Sheryl Urie]

My understanding of the ALUS project was that any conflicts associated with the project were declared and adjudicated, and a decision was made on who could participate in those votes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

We've already established that this is a special fund that had no public advertising and for which no opportunity was given to people outside of those who were insiders and connected to board members.

Have you ever, as an executive, knowingly ignored financial non-compliance for companies that successfully received money?

[Sheryl Urie]

No, I've never ignored financial non-compliance. All projects require a budget and an eligible expense review, and that's prior to any funds being disbursed.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Section 6.71 of the auditor's report identifies that COVID-19 dollars were paid out “without ensuring that its process to award such payments complied with contribution agreements.”

What would be the risk for the recipient companies if they were in breach of their contribution agreements?

[Sheryl Urie]

Prior to providing any type of COVID support, there was a review of all the companies—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Did you ever knowingly provide COVID support to companies that would automatically be in breach of financial compliance by being overfunded? Did you ever do that?

[Sheryl Urie]

I can tell you that for the assessment process I was involved in, there was a review of the funding ratios of the companies—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is 75% the appropriate ratio?

[Sheryl Urie]

It's 50% for the SDTC funding ratio and 75% for the companies—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Were there companies that ever came in at 78%?

[Sheryl Urie]

If there was any company.... What happens with our funding is there's always a holdback. With each disbursement that's provided, 10% is paid out.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Did companies know that by receiving COVID funding, they were in breach of their agreements?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Green, that is your time. I will allow a quick response from Ms. Urie.