Public Safety Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Could you address the clerk through the chair, please?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sure.

Through you, Mr. Chair, to the clerk, I had the floor when we adjourned. If we're resuming, my understanding would be that I have the floor now to resume.

In any event, I'd like to be added to the list.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair. Usually when you resume debate, the speaking list renews, but if members opposite want to filibuster this meeting, that's their prerogative. We're ready to vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you.

Mr. McKinnon has a point of order.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

When we last spoke on this matter, it was for a different motion. It was a motion to go to a different order of business and to give Mr. Caputo the chair.

For that motion, Mr. Genuis had the floor, but this is not the motion that has been moved.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On the same point of order, Chair, if I can clarify, there was the original motion, and there was the resumption motion. In both cases, I had the floor when there was adjournment.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

You're not going to get your clip quota.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

In response to Ms. O'Connell, I'm obviously disappointed that the Liberals have overruled the agenda here, but we didn't move that motion. They did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Mr. Genuis, you have the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

What we've seen happen today, just to briefly review, is that an agenda was sent around whereby two ministers would appear to discuss the grave problem of car theft in this country, and Conservatives—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, what is the relevance? We're dealing with the amendment to Mr. Genuis's motion—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I literally haven't finished a sentence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

Mr. Genuis, continue.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I know that Ms. O'Connell attends many committees. I hope that that has led to some familiarity with the rules of committees. I will certainly speak on the motion, but the context in which we're discussing this motion ever so briefly is that we had a meeting today scheduled to hear from ministers on car theft, and our position was that the ministers were making themselves available for an extremely limited period of time, for only an hour together. Nonetheless, we were and we remain prepared to use that time to ask the ministers important questions about this issue.

The Liberals have moved a motion, sadly with the support of the NDP and the Bloc, to move to a different item of business, which is procedurally in order but, I think, substantively objectionable, because we have two ministers of the Crown here who are supposed to be prepared to answer questions on auto theft. I can only conclude, because of the Liberal decision to move a motion to proceed to an order of business, that they're not interested in allowing their ministers to testify on this matter.

We have a draft subcommittee report before this committee that contains in it a number of provisions that we have certainly been prepared to discuss with other parties in hopes of coming to a reasonable conclusion. The core issue in the subcommittee report and in the amendment I've put forward is the proposed report on the transfer of Paul Bernardo.

Six months ago, this committee held some hearings on the transfer of one of the most heinous criminals in this country's history from maximum-security to medium-security prison and on the lack of engagement with and information to the families that were associated with that transfer. Those hearings happened only because Conservatives insisted that they happen. Liberals and other members of this committee wanted to prevent families from having their day in Parliament. We pushed back on that, and we were indeed very insistent on allowing those families to be heard.

It has now been six months since those hearings happened. Drafting instructions were provided to the analysts at a meeting in early December. After drafting instructions were provided, I can only assume that a report was prepared, so, in our amendment to the subcommittee report, we are taking the position that the report must be complete. That's why we proposed this amendment to the subcommittee report.

We have had a number of meetings at which it would have been useful to discuss the subcommittee report. In every case, the Liberals did not allow even basic discussion of the subcommittee report. The first meeting this was brought up at, the discussion was adjourned. At the subsequent meeting, witnesses were scheduled on another matter when we should have been discussing the subcommittee report. We proposed to resume consideration of the subcommittee report at that time, but there was no agreement to do so. Liberals would like us to effectively kill the Bernardo transfer report by passing a subcommittee report that does not make mention of it. It is in that spirit that we put forward this amendment.

Now Liberals are trying this silly game today where, on the one hand, they schedule ministers, but on the other hand, the chair, as was demonstrated, chose to give the floor to Ms. O'Connell, who then moved a motion to proceed to another matter of business.

Look, our ministers have a lot of work they could be doing. Mr. LeBlanc has a leadership campaign to be working on—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—as well as a busy file.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I could do it from here, too.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I see Minister LeBlanc is working on bringing Minister Rodriguez onside for his campaign. He has not only begun his campaign; he's secured his first—I was going to say “high-profile endorsement”—medium-profile endorsement. I know Minister Joly thought she had Montreal wrapped up, but Minister Rodriguez may give her a run for her money.

Chair, I think I've just made the point in terms of what we should be discussing today. I'll say that Conservatives are happy to discuss the subcommittee report at a time when we don't have ministers. I would encourage the chair to schedule the resumption of discussion of the subcommittee report at the next meeting, so that this matter can be concluded. Conservatives would love to come to an agreement on the subcommittee report that leaves intact the various other sections of the subcommittee report as discussed but does include an opportunity to get to the bottom of some of these outstanding matters.

The amendment calls, in particular:

That the draft report on the transfer of Paul Bernardo be immediately distributed to committee members and that, notwithstanding any other items mentioned, with the exception of testimony by ministers, the committee not hold any other hearings or present any reports to the House until the committee has completed and presented its report to the House on the Bernardo prison transfer.

That's our position, and out of respect for the ministers' time and the important issue of auto theft, I move that we adjourn debate.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I'd like a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

On whether we adjourn debate, we're going to do a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

It's defeated.

Continue, Mr. Genuis, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, we've had another vote here. Conservatives have proposed that we be able to hear from the ministers on the issue of auto theft, and bizarrely we have the cover-up coalition trying to prevent the ministers from being able to testify.

I notice there's a repeated pattern of Liberals trying to prevent prospective leadership candidates from being able to share their views before parliamentary committees. We were trying to give Mr. Carney an opportunity to present at the finance committee yesterday, and Liberals were very opposed to that. Now we're trying to give Mr. LeBlanc an opportunity to present here at the public safety committee.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The Liberals are preventing it again. You would think they would want to give people the opportunity to share their approach.

[The Chair, Liberal, Heath MacDonald]

We have a point of order.