Transport Committee on May 21st, 2024

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

When we're going to make major investments in a city's public transit system, which is primarily within a municipal or provincial range of jurisdiction, we want to make sure that we're setting it up for long-term success and that we understand what the long-term plans are. We don't have a pot of money on the side to pull out of just to put towards a problem as it arises when it comes to public transit.

Maybe others think that would be desirable. My view is that we should provide long-term sustainable funding for a long-term sustainable plan. That's where the permanent public transit fund is going to come in. We expect, although money flows in 2026, that we'll be able to book our first deals this calendar year because of the lead time to book and pay for some of the infrastructure required to build a system, so Toronto—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I apologize. I just want to make sure that everybody is getting the same amount of time.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I want to respect the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Dr. Lewis. The floor is yours once again. You have five minutes, please.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, I want to ask you something specific about something that falls under your portfolio.

As the minister who is responsible for housing and accountable to the national housing agency, is the CEO of CMHC receiving a bonus this year?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't typically involve myself with the compensation of employees of Crown corporations.

I don't know about the status of bonuses. I would point out that there's an interim CEO right now and that it may be a unique structure.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Do you not see the budget?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm sorry. I could just as easily yield, although my deputy has just shared with me that it's a Governor in Council process and that the bonus hasn't actually been determined.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Do you think it's fair that the CEO of CMHC receives a bonus in a year when housing starts are down?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think it's important that elected officials don't try to interfere with the compensation scheme set for public servants. I think it would be a bad practice. From my perspective, if there is a process that people were following, that process ought to be followed.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Performance could be dismal and your government would still think it's okay for public servants or CEOs of Crown corporations or agencies to receive bonuses, even though performance is abysmal.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The performance standards reflected in a given bonus structure should reward performance.

There are housing conditions that are challenging that may be inside or outside of a person's control. Again, once you have a process designed to reward performance, that process should be abided by.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

When performance is down, there should be bonuses—is that what you're saying?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Those are your words, not mine.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Can we go back to one of your previous answers, Minister?

You stated that the $4-billion housing accelerator fund that I referred to was incorrect, but that's actually on page 45 of the budget.

Are you going to correct that response, Minister?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

You said $4.4 billion. Four billion dollars were administered previously. Not all of that money has actually been spent, because most cases involve a municipality that only gets a 25% upfront payment so that we can protect against the risk that a community wouldn't follow through on the performance they've agreed to in the particular agreement, so—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

How many houses have been built as a result of that $4 billion that you referenced?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The specific funding leads to systemic changes that will have an impact over time. The communities that we've partnered with have indicated that over the next decade, they expect an increase of 750,000 building permits issued across Canada.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We've seen property taxes and costs increase for homeowners in places like Toronto while the federal government is dishing out $4 billion in a housing accelerator fund.

Will you commit today to not giving out any housing accelerator money to cities that increase development charges or other taxes on homebuyers?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

When we deal with the development cost charges, we use the Canada housing infrastructure fund that was in the recent federal budget, not the housing accelerator fund—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Is that a yes or no, Minister?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We're funding infrastructure differently. The housing accelerator fund agreement was not designed around development cost charges but around permits and zoning practices.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

There's no commitment today, then.

I'm going to move on with my questions.

Your government has set some pretty ambitious targets to build homes for Canadians. Your government's goal is 3.9 million homes in 2031. That's 1.096 homes that must be built every minute. That's 65 homes per hour.

We've been here for just over 30 minutes. Has your government built 32 homes in the last 32 minutes, Minister?