Transport Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, can I comment on the point of order?

First of all, it's interesting that Liberal members don't want to hear this, but Ms. O'Connell asked extensive questions about the current wildfires and climate change, and Mr. Chahal didn't object at that time. I think if Ms. O'Connell's questions were allowed to stand and were considered relevant in the context of the current study, then mine are certainly more relevant, as they actually deal with financial matters and government spending.

These things can be interpreted different ways, but I hope you will apply the rules equally to members in different parties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

I believe Ms. O'Connell's remarks were her prelude to her questions. Her questions weren't actually in regard to that. She made them very specific to the relationship and the Infrastructure Bank.

I would kindly ask that you and all members keep your questioning to the relationship regarding McKinsey & Company and the Infrastructure Bank.

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Well, thank you, Chair. I will make the link. Given that the question was asked, I appreciate the opportunity to have a response from Mr. Morneau, if he wants, on whether he agrees that government spending is driving inflation.

Go ahead, Mr. Morneau.

[Bill Morneau]

One of the ideas behind the Canada Infrastructure Bank was that we would make investments that would be effective for the long term and that would not crowd out private sector investment. It was not seen from our perspective as something that was going to be inflationary but as something that would be positive for the long-term prosperity of Canada. In no way did we see it as a mechanism that would be anything other than finding a way to increase investment in a needed area.

That's the closest link to inflation to the subject this morning.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Right. Okay. Maybe just to follow up on that, then, is there a point at which spending on the Infrastructure Bank, in combination with overall government spending...? Do you think at a certain point government spending is inflationary in its effects?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm sorry, Mr. Genuis. I'm going to ask you to make a link between that question and the study that this committee is embarking on, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I did. I just said that in the context of spending on the Infrastructure Bank and spending in general, the government has to make decisions about spending on the Infrastructure Bank as well as other areas. I think whether spending is inflationary or not is linked to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

The question at hand, Mr. Genuis, is what role McKinsey & Company played in the creation of the Infrastructure Bank. I don't see the relevance. I'm going to ask you to please make a relevant case as to why that question is linked.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The question of whether or not this was a good policy is informed by the question of what its effects are.

You allow Liberal members to speak at length about climate change in the context of their questions. I think Canadians want to hear from Mr. Morneau on these questions. I think it's as relevant as Ms. O'Connell's questions, or more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Okay. I—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I reference the Infrastructure Bank in my explanation.

How much time do I have left, by the way, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have two minutes and 30 seconds, because I took away the time for the point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much.

I have other things I want to ask, but, Mr. Morneau, do you want to respond to this point?

[Bill Morneau]

I have nothing to respond to that particular point.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

In terms of the management of the Infrastructure Bank today and the current situation with its activities, are there things you would be doing differently if you were still the finance minister today?

[Bill Morneau]

I'm not closely linked to the Canada Infrastructure Bank today, so I don't have any way to comment on their current management or governance. When I was the minister of finance, I would have been engaged only from a distance, because it was a separate institution.

I can't answer that question with any seriousness.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

Do you think the interest rate hikes we're seeing now were a predictable result of current government policy?

[An hon. member]

How is that relevant?

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Once again, there's no relevancy to the study. The member—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Let him answer.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

—would know from committee members who brought this motion forward that we are here to study McKinsey and the Infrastructure Bank, not interest rates and not finance policy from another committee.

I would ask the member to focus on what we're here to study, and if—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I didn't interrupt Ms. O'Connell at all.

[George Chahal, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

—members across want a different study on finance, they should bring that forward. We've agreed upon a study of McKinsey and the Infrastructure Bank. Mr. Morneau has taken time out of his schedule to come here to answer questions on that, so we should focus on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Chahal.

I'll once again ask that we ensure our questions are relevant to the question of the role McKinsey & Company played in the creation of the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

Once again, your time has been stopped so as not to penalize you for the point of order, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I let Ms. O'Connell go far afield of the topic without interruption. It's interesting that Liberal members don't want to hear from the former Liberal finance minister about these issues.

Do you want to answer the question I just asked, Mr. Morneau? I'm then going to ask you about Mr. Pickersgill in the time I have left.