Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to this bill, the Budget Implementation Act, 1998.
One very important thing in this bill is that it would establish the Canada millennium scholarship foundation. This project has been rejected by the whole education community in Quebec.
We saw it yesterday. Representatives at the elementary, secondary, college and university levels, administrators, unions, all Quebeckers clearly expressed their opposition to Bill C-36. They accompanied Mr. Bouchard, who came to Ottawa yesterday to give Mr. Chrétien a proposed amendment that would satisfy Quebec's education coalition.
The amendment reads as follows:
Withdrawal with compensation
46.1. When a province has established and administers a financial assistance program for students to ensure equal opportunities regarding post-secondary education, the ministers
shall, at the province's request, conduct negotiations with this province to come to an agreement with respect to the fair compensation it should be paid in lieu of the foundation's activities in the province.
This amendment is not just the position of the Government of Quebec, it is also the position of the entire coalition, which represents all those involved in education in Quebec.
There is recognition that the federal government might be entitled to a certain degree of visibility. It wishes to ensure that the people who receive money from this program know where it came from. I believe that desire may be legitimate.
This ought not, however, to be done at the expense of efficiency. The bill contains some things that are completely unacceptable. The way the foundation is set up and the administrators appointed, and the means they are equipped with, is duplication, in my vocabulary. It is creating, alongside the structure that exists in Quebec to provide financial assistance to students, another structure which will not only compete with the entire system in place in Quebec, but will also disturb it. It is important for those in the rest of Canada to understand this.
In Quebec, there is already a system of loans and scholarships in place. As a result, the average student debt load in Quebec is in the vicinity of $11,000 on graduation, as opposed to $25,000 in the rest of Canada. The explanation for the difference is that, since 1964, Quebec has exercised its right to opt out in accordance with an agreement reached between Prime Minister Pearson and Premier Lesage. Quebec has developed an incredible expertise in this area. I believe it to be a model that is the envy of all of Canada.
Today, when they want to put the millennium scholarships in place, the reason the Quebec coalition is opposed to the federal position is not because it will make more money available to students, but because it is necessary to ensure that this money will fit properly within the jurisdictional framework set out in the Constitution.
In Canada, education is a provincial jurisdiction. When I hear a phrase like the one used recently by a Liberal MP that “we are not interfering in education, we are going to give money to students”, this is evidence of gross ignorance of Canada's history, and of the fact that, for Quebec, jurisdiction over education is something sacred. It is one of the cornerstones of the Confederation pact of 1867. It is therefore important, and it is necessary that a solution be found.
The Quebec government took a reasonable attitude and made a proposal. Both parties agreed to appoint negotiators: on the one side, the deputy minister of human resources development and, on the other side, the Quebec deputy minister of intergovernmental affairs, assisted by officials from the ministry of education, to try and find a mutually satisfactory solution.
The Bloc Quebecois will be monitoring developments very closely, and I was very surprised by the Prime minister's answer today, during question period. He said these negotiations could take place and Bill C-36 did not have to be amended, it could be passed as is. That is absolutely impossible, since paragraphs 29(1) and 25(2) provide that the foundation may not enter into an agreement with the provinces to delegate the management of the millennium scholarships.
Therefore, if the federal government wants to show good faith following yesterday's decision to have negotiations, if these negotiations are not simply a way to buy time, the federal government should make a move. It could for instance set aside Bill C-36, at least as regards the millennium scholarships, or include a provision to the effect that, if an agreement is entered into by Quebec and Ottawa respecting the management of the scholarships, this agreement shall become part of the act following the negotiations.
It is important that it be made very clear that Quebec has control over the development of its education system. Yesterday, the coalition's spokesperson, Mr. Shapiro, who is the dean of McGill University, came here to speak on behalf of all stakeholders there.
We cannot call Mr. Shapiro a separatist. McGill University is no hotbed for separatists. I think there are people there of all political stripes, including federalists.
However, Mr. Shapiro and stakeholders in education have one concern. They say that instruction is an integral tool in the development of the individual. Certain things are learned at the primary, secondary, college and university levels, and equality of opportunity will not be assured by awarding university scholarships at the end of a program of studies on a merit basis. There has to be enough money available at all levels of education, especially at the post-secondary level. I think it is important for us to reach an acceptable outcome.
Could the federal government achieve its visibility objectives while the Government of Quebec and education stakeholders achieve their objective of efficiency? I think, in order to reach an agreement, that a way must be found to achieve both objectives—that is federal visibility, a condition the Prime Minister himself put on the table, and provincial efficiency, which holds together the coalition of education stakeholders in Quebec. So we have before us the opportunity to come up with a solution to a problem that could last several years.
There was the manpower issue, you will remember. It took a strong consensus in Quebec lasting a number of years and repeated questioning here by the Bloc for the dam to finally give way and agreements to be reached ensuring Quebec control over an important aspect of manpower and training.
There will be similar cases in the future, including the whole matter of the youth strategy. How can Quebec be given responsibility for manpower training with the federal government retaining control over the youth strategy? This is an example of work yet to be done, and the whole matter of the Canada Millennium Scholarship Foundation is another one.
Yesterday, all the vital forces in Quebec education were represented in Ottawa. These people came to tell the Prime Minister of Canada “We want a solution that will allow the money to be used efficiently in Quebec. We want to make sure it will not be sprinkled here and there for reasons of visibility, which would lead to unacceptable results. We cannot afford to waste money in the education sector”.
From 1994 to 1998, the cuts to federal transfer payments accounted for 75 cents out of every dollar the Quebec government was forced to cut from the budgets for health and education. The situation is urgent. The federal government must negotiate in good faith. These negotiations must be conducted properly, which means that, as regards the millennium scholarship fund provided for in Bill C-36, the government must not act as suggested by the Prime Minister today.
This bill must not be rammed through the House by the federal government. Rather, we must put things on hold and give time to the negotiators to find a solution in line with the amendment proposed by the Premier of Quebec. The purpose of this amendment is to allow a province that administers a financial assistance program designed to ensure equal opportunities, to reach an agreement with the federal government for fair financial compensation in lieu of the foundation's activities in that province.
This is the request made by the Quebec government, but it is also the request made by all stakeholders in Quebec's education sector. I hope the federal government will give favourable consideration to this request from all Quebeckers.