Public Accounts committee  The department did provide a response to our recommendation, and it's actually a pretty good one to the recommendation. On ISED's role when it comes to the oversight of a foundation, in this case they were required to inquire about conflicts of interest. As I mentioned in the previous answer, when you want to have individuals on the board who are knowledgeable in the industry helping to approve which projects get funding, it is likely that there will be situations of real or perceived conflicts of interest, and that's why they should be well managed.

Public Accounts committee  With the findings of the 90 conflicts of interest, the cases...?

Public Accounts committee  A board member, staff at the foundation and consultants at the foundation are all given the conflict of interest policies that exist in the foundation, and they must proactively declare when they have a link to an organization that may be applying for funding with the organization.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's always concerning when an organization doesn't want to agree with the factual accuracy of our reports. I spent, personally, in addition to the team, a lot of time with the CRTC. It boiled down to our just not being in the same place in terms of what the expectations are of them to discharge their responsibilities under the Canada anti-spam legislation, and the categorization of their own internal policies.

Public Accounts committee  Absolutely, and I think I want to recognize that procurement officers in the public service have a great will and desire to follow the rules. I question whether there are just too many or they're complicated, because the frequency of the disregard that we saw here makes you question.

Public Accounts committee  It's a concern.

Public Accounts committee  There was a contract issued by Trans Mountain Corporation to McKinsey & Company to provide advice on operations, sort of monthly—how to be more efficient and how to save money. That contract was issued on a non-competitive basis. It did not have a limit, but they expected that they would spend about $19 million.

Public Accounts committee  I don't believe that contract was signed by a minister. We only saw one contract where a minister had to authorize the approval of it, given that it exceeded the threshold that the public service could authorize, but that was not this contract.

Public Accounts committee  I just want to talk a bit about how the board members were appointed to the foundation. Half of them are appointed by the—

Public Accounts committee  I'm going to get to the answer. Half of them are appointed through the Governor in Council process, which is supposed to be a process that's independent. We did not look at that—

Public Accounts committee  The other half of the board of directors is appointed by this member council. They're supposed to represent the Canadian population and the industry. When you have that composition of a board of directors, it is likely that you'll see conflicts of interest, which is why it is so important, if you want the expertise of the industry at the table, that you have a good process to manage conflicts of interest.

Public Accounts committee  As I mentioned earlier, there are 97 contracts here, and they're all kind of unique. I would cite probably two things. One is that the contract is still ongoing, so they perhaps could spend the full amount of the contract. However, in other instances, the ceiling or the full amount of the contract was not spent.

Public Accounts committee  When you look at the bucket of professional services that McKinsey provided and compare it to the spend across the public service for professional services contracts, McKinsey accounts for 0.27% of that spend.

Public Accounts committee  It's a tiny percentage.

Public Accounts committee  However, the problems, I think, are not unique to McKinsey. The problems are something that I would expect to see more broadly across professional services and contracting. That's why everyone needs to be reminded of all the rules and the importance of following them for transparency and accountability.