Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Sure. Merci. Very quickly, concerning resettlement, that is where Canada can play a role. We have very small numbers, quotas by resettlement countries, for Somali refugees from Dadaab or from Kenya in general. To give you one number, in 2016, 902 Somali were resettled to Canada, 902 out of the population of approximately 300,000 refugees currently in Kenya.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson. I'm very happy to be back before this committee. I'll try to be brief, because I think it's more important that you hear directly from our colleagues, Somali refugees who have first-hand experience of what it means to live in Dadaab. Let me just set the scene with a few numbers.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  It's going to be very short because I'm going to avoid responding to the question. I'm an impartial and neutral humanitarian worker, and I cannot comment on those political aspects. I'm sorry.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  That is correct.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Sure, but they are also sharing the school. They are also sharing access to the potable water. So, if the host communities do not feel that they are equally helped, they will simply see the newcomers as a burden with no benefit whatsoever.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  It's both ways, because actually there's a strong ministerial coordination group in Kampala to which UNHCR has added some staff to help them to actually put in place the policies. That dates back, really, to what we were doing with the IDPs 10 years ago, developing an IDP policy for the government to then coordinate.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  They go to existing schools. There's a question of absorption capacity in terms of space, but also in terms of teachers, because one teacher, instead of teaching 40 kids, which is the ratio in that part of the world, suddenly ends up with 80 kids. We need also to support, for example, the teachers, to have more teachers or to shift morning and afternoon.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes. There is what we call in international law the cessation clause, which is, you have the status of refugee as long as you cannot avail yourself of the protection of your home country, the country of origin, nationality or habitual residence. Indeed, at some point the United Nations and UNHCR, our agency, may declare that it's safe for people to return because there's been a radical change in the political scene, or peace has been achieved.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I want to back that up by a quote from our high commissioner at the last executive committee. For the Syria situation, we get 60% of our funding. For any sub-Saharan African country, we get only 20%. That's unacceptable because the needs of an African child to go to school or, say, a Syrian refugee child in Lebanon to go to school are exactly the same.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  It's not unique to Uganda and we are trying very much to replicate it, but indeed taking into account housing, land, and property rights issues. In Uganda, the land is owned one of three ways: by the state, public land; privately owned; or by the tribes. Northern Uganda has—I don't remember now anymore—a large number of different tribes and subdivides.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I'm not sure I can really add anything to your very eloquent articulation of the dilemma.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  What we have been calling upon is the fact that indeed, it's often a question of deficit in the rule of law, deficit in development, and deficit, as you rightly said, in the fair distribution of the dividends of the investment in a country. From an economic point of view, from a social point of view, and from a cultural point of view, we really have to look at all those issues.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  It's having the right institutions, but also having the right leaders in those institutions. That is far more complicated, because it cannot be imposed by the United Nations or by external panels. The leaders have to be chosen by the people. When it's a nascent democracy, I think it's also a challenge to make sure that the population participate in the democratic process and choose the leaders that they want to be represented by.