Health committee  Yes, I did. I think the Privacy Commissioner was obviously also asked to comment on this bill under short notice. So we did explain to the Privacy Commissioner that we are interested in the pathogens and how they're handled and contained. We're not interested in personal information to do with the patients that the samples have come from, for instance.

Health committee  Yes, as I said, we're mainly promoting a uniform standard across the country in terms of good biosafety practices. We still believe that is absolutely important for level 2 pathogens. We do not believe that they are of the biosecurity risk--i.e. the use of them for bioterrorism acts or security breaches--as select level 3 and level 4 pathogens.

Health committee  Given the process that Jane has outlined, we wanted to initially farm out our consultation strategy for people to provide comments on it. We believe it would take about two years. We don't take the making of regulations lightly; we want something that would actually work in Canada.

Health committee  For all laboratories, what's currently envisaged is a phased approach. The initial phase upon royal assent is very simple. The impact on them is that they have to call us and make sure we know who they are and that they're only holding level 2 pathogens, or whether they're holding certain level 3 and 4 pathogens.

Health committee  There are only two laboratories at level 4, and they belong to the federal government and are situated in Winnipeg. There are approximately 130 level 3 laboratories. We believe the majority of those—almost all—are already importing pathogens. They essentially already have permits under the human pathogen importation regulations, so we know they're following laboratory safety procedures.

Health committee  The risk group of pathogens, like salmonella, or the E. coli that caused the Walkerton incident, when grown in certain concentrations are dangerous. It is important for laboratory workers to be protected against those pathogens and apply the laboratory biosafety guidelines. A number of these pathogens can be spread, if it's an enteric pathogen, to the immediate family or to their community.

Health committee  After the bill is passed, upon royal assent, we actually will be able to get in touch with these labs. At this point in time, it's not easy to say what labs are using proper biosafety practices, but we've just had some very recent experiences of laboratories that fall under the radar of any research or academic institutions that are working with level 2 pathogens and have very worrisome practices, including abandonment of pathogens with no indication as to what's in their inventory.

Health committee  I could try to answer this. The made-in-Canada solution, this Bill C-11 and the program thereafter, is to establish biosafety and biosecurity and to protect Canadians from pathogens. It's important for us to know who holds pathogens, whether they are in risk group 2 or not. All we want to do is to know that when institutions, organizations, and laboratories hold pathogens, we actually know who these people are and that they are handling things in a safe manner, according to laboratory biosafety guidelines.

Health committee  I can't comment on why the United States did what they did, but they certainly have a bioterrorism focus. We are promoting a biosafety regime that's uniform across Canada. As Dr. Butler-Jones said, our human pathogen importation regulation actually has a maximum of up to three months of jail time as well.

Health committee  The $37 million is only with respect to this particular legislation.

Health committee  Over four years. And then it's ongoing.

Health committee  In terms of the cost to the federal government, which includes security clearance and licence issuance, so there's no cost to the labs, the budget was provided for in Budget 2008. The envelope, if you like, is $37 million with certainly ongoing funding beyond the initial years. The initial years will cost more in terms of the establishment of the program itself--

Health committee  This is actually a conversation that we've had with water treatment facilities, and we certainly consider waste water that is collected and contains pathogens to be a natural environment. To us this is clear in the bill as it exists. So you do have to interpret the bill, and its different sections, in its entirety.

Health committee  I think looking at further assurance, if you like, in the legislation is certainly something we would be prepared to look at. We haven't rushed into this. We have had human pathogen importation regulations for 15 years. The concept of the need to know who possessed what domestically and how we could safely handle these pathogens took place around 1999.

Health committee  The Public Health Agency is receptive to clarifications or assurances that we will treat risk group 2 differently from risk groups 3 and 4. We certainly agree that there has to be a degree of flexibility for risk group 3 so that in the regulations and through consultations we can distinguish those of high lethality and impact versus TB or HIV or others in risk group 3 that could essentially be handled differently.