Government Operations committee  Right now in the federal public service there are people who are in a position where they can retire, but they are staying and taking on a mentoring role. It's a very powerful tool that the government should be using. On how to get them to stay and mentor, I've had people in senior positions say they're only working for peanuts.

Government Operations committee  I think the government has a problem, I think it needs to be addressed, and I think the hiring of professionals needs to be addressed long-term, not just through terms and sunsets and these other programs that are basically band-aids. The problem has been building since the early 1990s, and I think it's time the government needs to look at it.

Government Operations committee  As I mentioned, the problem has been building over the years. To have the numbers there is one thing. Get them in the system, get them in quick, start to educate them about the role of the public servant, and we can at least begin to stave off this problem. But numbers are one thing and reality is another.

Government Operations committee  Due to the lack of resources, I think there's an inability for people to do it, because it's across the board, whether it be training in language or whether it be training to advance through the system.

Government Operations committee  Yes, there's absolutely a lack of resources.

Government Operations committee  It's not our experience. They're coming in at a higher age. In terms of the professional qualifications, in the professional categories, they spend longer before receiving their degrees, then they're entering the professional designations. It's not necessarily.... There are the baby boomers, who have been—

Government Operations committee  I'd like to know how many were hired in the last 10 years in the professional categories.

Government Operations committee  As I said in our brief, since program review, professionals haven't been hired.

Government Operations committee  Well, there is the learning agenda. I started out as an engineering and science technologist and worked my way up through a master's degree in university within the system. There is hope, as I said to your colleague, but it has to be strategic.

Government Operations committee  Did you say non-rural to rural?

Government Operations committee  It's a very good question. I don't have those numbers, but I can get them for you. To scope it out, what are you interested in?

Government Operations committee  I mentioned in the brief that there is an absolute lack of resources for self-improvement or professional development.

Government Operations committee  I really don't. I know that when people enter the public service at a later age they have fewer years to bank on. They have to stay around longer in order to have pensions they can retire on. I don't know how that can be addressed. I will say our membership is willing to work with the government on any ideas to try to sort out where we can be of assistance.

Government Operations committee  For us the problem is chronic. We started looking at this a long time ago. I appreciate your data and I think it's absolutely correct. There are other examples we could point to. The question is, why are departments afraid to make the commitment to hire somebody long-term? It has to do with the amount of stability they believe the system has in it for them.

Government Operations committee  That's a very good question, but to compare the public sector with the private sector is really apples and oranges. They do different types of work. The private sector really is about making money; the public sector is about providing public good. You can hire somebody who wants to work for the public service and is dedicated to the public good.