Canada-China Relations committee  That's a good question. I actually think the number is closer to 200,000. The PRC embassy says 170,000-plus, and I think that's closer to the truth. Very quickly, for students, we don't know the effect yet, but roughly a million Chinese students are abroad at any given time. We don't know what the long-term effects of that will be.

Canada-China Relations committee  I think one of my recommendations was a web portal, run perhaps by one of our security agencies, whereby any student or any professor who felt that there was untoward or undue influence upon them by a foreign government or an individual could approach it, because they're often rather shy about reporting these things, particularly in the case of Chinese culture.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would concur with that as long as those standards are sophisticated and involve back-and-forth between the universities and are not just a diktat from the federal government to an autonomous institution. The risk is not just for another city or another university; the risk is also for another country.

Canada-China Relations committee  It's both.

Canada-China Relations committee  We're only going to know the answer to that question in the fullness of time. I do believe that free societies and free universities have an advantage with creativity. We see this especially in Chinese university-level social sciences, where they're hopelessly backward because of censorship.

Canada-China Relations committee  As I see it, the problem is funding. I know it sounds like, “Yes we have Chinese Canadians who can teach Chinese”, although not all of them can. It's who funds it. In the United States, what is the number one funder of Chinese language? It's the U.S. Department of Defense. The United States understands that China is a comprehensive competitor to the United States and that they need thousands—ideally tens of thousands—of fluent Chinese speakers.

Canada-China Relations committee  I'd like to add a couple of words. I don't expect Chinese behaviour is going to change drastically for the better. Certainly, as Paul hints, when the three Ms are dealt with, we can return, I would hope, to a somewhat more normal relationship, with exchanges, high-level visits and dialogue.

Canada-China Relations committee  These are going to be complex technical issues. Clearly, we do not want to provide Chinese databases or Chinese authorities with any personal information that could be used against either Canada or their own citizens, but there is space, I believe, for scientific collaboration that does not involve a security risk.

Canada-China Relations committee  I'm happy to add a couple of words. I think there is that risk. I know that many of my Canadian friends of Chinese heritage are very uncomfortable now with the tone of the dialogue. It's reflected in its crudest manner sometimes in street incidents of racism, graffiti and that sort of thing.

Canada-China Relations committee  I could just jump in to add a few words. I don't want to repeat anything that Paul has said and I'm not speaking on behalf of the University of Alberta. Universities have asked for advice, or at least have indicated that they haven't received it, so the straightforward answer to your question would be that, yes, advice would be welcome.

Canada-China Relations committee  Could I take a first crack at that one?

Canada-China Relations committee  Okay, good. I think China is still feeling its way as a great power. I couldn't agree more that random tweets from third countries, as in the case of the tweet from the consul general in Rio de Janeiro, are counterproductive. China will have to deal with the Government of Canada and the people within it.

Canada-China Relations committee  Of course, and that's fine. Thank you.

Canada-China Relations committee  Thank you, Chair and honourable members. I am appearing in an individual capacity and not as a representative of the University of Alberta. Altering China's behaviour, especially within China, is challenging. This does not mean that we should not try, but rather that we need to be modest in our expectations.

Industry committee  I would agree. The national security review can be applied in any instance, even for small transactions. That's where I think some of the real dangers appear. With a mine—let's put aside all other environmental issues—you know where the product is, what it is and where it's going.