Government Operations committee  Actually, Madame, the brief says that. I actually said they're already overstretched as a result of ongoing cutbacks since program review. So the brief says one thing and I said another.

Government Operations committee  We've been working with the S and T community secretariat for some 10 years now. It is a Treasury Board group. We also work with each science-based department and agency in terms of consultation, which, as you know, is very important under the Public Service Modernization Act. We work collegially and we work cooperatively with the departments to try to identify ways we can deal with all issues, not just the impending crisis that's in front of us.

Government Operations committee  Well, they're all connected. As much as you want to try to separate them out, they're connected. If you create a workplace that attracts the best and brightest to deliver for Canadians, but you're not providing resources or you don't have interesting equipment to work on because it's not been updated in the last ten years, they won't stay.

Government Operations committee  Is there hope? Yes, there is hope. I think there's reason to hope. Yes, there are notable differences across regions and across sectors. I've visited many, many laboratories. As a matter of fact, I come from a laboratory that was closed down under program review in 1998. These things are happening across the country, and I do see differences in the country.

Government Operations committee  Yes, it is.

Government Operations committee  No, they don't retire at fifty, or not usually.

Government Operations committee  With respect to the private sector?

Government Operations committee  Well, in representing professionals, we're talking about people with advanced degrees. By the time they get out of school—

Government Operations committee  Well, I think if you look across the public sector—with all due respect, the public sector doesn't only include those in the national capital region—when you talk about professional jobs and those in laboratories in regions, I would question whether those numbers actually apply.

Government Operations committee  No, I think they could hire somebody, but it's whether that person, once in the federal system, will stay. If they have done any hiring over the last number of years, whether they stay is part of the problem, because they'll get in, and there's crumbling infrastructure, or it's just not the type of place they want to work.

Government Operations committee  I think the federal government is an attractive place to work overall. It does attract. Obviously, from the number of applicants, it attracts people. It's just that when people get into the public service, it is not.... I mean, it's attractive because people have a desire to do public service, public good.

Government Operations committee  I'm almost done, Madame. The Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada has gathered input from its 50,000 members and from its work with the departments and agencies on the issues of recruitment and retention. Institute members are vital. The institute offers the following advice regarding the need to attract qualified candidates, not only directly after graduation but at mid-career as well.

Government Operations committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the committee. My name is Gary Corbett. I am a vice-president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada. Before that, I held a position as a mining engineer with the Department of Natural Resources Canada.