Finance committee  We have a different view from Mr. Viau. We see post-doctoral fellows not as students but as academics who are in an employment relationship. The problem is not that their income is being taxed; the problem is that what they're paid is far too low. That's how it needs to be addressed.

Finance committee  That's right. But the solution to it is not to not tax them. That still leaves them with a low income. The solution is to pay them properly. The granting councils have a level of pay so post-docs are paid out of grants, and it's remarkably low. I think, as Mr. Viau said, it's sometimes less than a PhD student will get.

Finance committee  Actually, it is. They recognize that to get out of the economic trouble they're in, they have to invest heavily in research, and they have targeted academic research as a key to their future. So I think it's actually a very apt comparison. As well—we see this with young graduate students who complete their PhDs and are looking for places—the top students can find substantially more research support in the United States and often take positions in American universities, and we lose them precisely because we haven't funded our granting councils on a proportionate basis.

Finance committee  This government actually did make an important contribution by introducing the Canada student grants program. Currently that program provides low-income students with just about $2,000 a year, which doesn't even cover half the cost of tuition in most provinces. We'd certainly recommend raising the maximum grant under that program to $5,000, which is a level that more accurately reflects the average undergraduate tuition fee in the country.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My colleague, David Robinson, and I are pleased to be here with you. We don't envy the job you have. You listen to hundreds of groups come to talk about their needs. We suggest there are some sectors and some needs that undergird virtually everyone else: health care, post-secondary education, and social services.

Industry committee  Thank you for your question. The question cuts to the heart of the matter. While there is all this rhetoric about fines and everything, the real issue is, how do we best serve Canadians? What you're debating here comes down to very real penalties for Canadians. Before we came in, my colleague, Mike Ornstein, and I were talking about this.

Industry committee  I'm not aware of that.

Industry committee  No, somebody who didn't want to answer that question wouldn't answer it. That person still might complete the whole form.

Industry committee  I'd be surprised if there was a single Canadian who was fined $500 for not answering a question about how much he or she spent on water.

Industry committee  It is, actually.

Industry committee  Indeed.

Industry committee  I'd point out that the cabinet of the Government of Canada thought it was important, too, because it was in the questionnaire.

Industry committee  It wasn't?

Industry committee  Mr. Lake, the problem every census is that there are many more questions we would like to ask and governments and community groups need in order to plan, and there has to be a trade-off as to what can be included to reach a balance in terms of the appropriate length relative to the appropriate information desired.

Industry committee  I just want to comment on Mr. Masse's comment. The government is acting as though it's the opposition. It's criticizing the policies of the Government of Canada, which it has the ability to change. As well, there's a good deal of misinformation that has been identified this morning by members of the government.