Information & Ethics committee  Well, I think the office is driven by what's in the act—

Information & Ethics committee  The act clearly states that: If, during an investigation...the Commissioner believes on reasonable grounds that a person has committed an offence under this or any other Act of Parliament...the Commissioner shall advise a peace officer having jurisdiction to investigate

Information & Ethics committee  There are a couple of different scenarios going on here. If your constituent is working on a project in their back shed and thinks it might have great application and might be just the sort of project that a government grant might assist with, they are not being paid to lobby. Their speaking with the member of Parliament would not be a registerable lobbying activity.

Information & Ethics committee  It came into force in 1997.

Information & Ethics committee  By you, by the Commissioner.

Information & Ethics committee  I would hazard a guess that it was the industry committee at the time. Because it was the former ethics counsellor who developed the code, and he operated within the Department of Industry at the time, I'm quite certain that's what it was.

Information & Ethics committee  There had been previous guidance on that ruling issued by the ethics counsellor earlier, and there is some guidance about Chinese walls, or lobbyists, as well.

Information & Ethics committee  The definition of public office holder in the Lobbying Act is very broad. It includes members of the armed forces and members of the RCMP. So it's very much anyone who receives a pay cheque from Her Majesty--or maybe not entirely, but it's very broad. I think the commissioner has said this act is targeted at dealing with the registration and the activities of lobbyists.

Information & Ethics committee  The act doesn't contain a definition of lobbying per se. The activities that are registerable lobbying activities are set out in two sections in the act, section 5 and section 7. Section 5 deals with consultant lobbyists. This is the term the act uses for people who are, in essence, professional lobbyists who take on clients and do registerable lobbying activities on their behalf.

Information & Ethics committee  They get paid, exactly. Section 7 deals with corporations and organizations. There's a definition of organizations in the act that is very, very broad and is designed to include not-for-profit corporations, partnerships, all sorts of trusts, all sorts of unincorporated corporations that are not what are called share capital corporations, or for-profit corporations.

Information & Ethics committee  I would like to add that as a result of the decision of the Federal Court of Appeal, the lobbyist in question, Mr. Makhija, has asked the Supreme Court whether it could hear an appeal of his case, but his application was denied. So it will stay at the Federal Court of Appeal level, once again.

Information & Ethics committee  I'm not sure if I understand, Mr. Chairman. Are we looking for that within the Lobbying Act?

Information & Ethics committee  We're speaking about the Globe and Mail article. Is that correct?

Information & Ethics committee  I'm not sure. I'm certain you'd be able to find a definition of what constitutes the Prime Minister's Office somewhere on the PCO website--the PMO website, for instance. But I don't think that office is created by statute, as are government departments and the commissioner's office, for instance, which is created by statute in the Lobbying Act.

Information & Ethics committee  If I may, one thing, of course, is that these amendments to the Lobbying Act have only been in place for a little over one year, and the Conflict of Interest Act that Ms. Dawson administers is also quite new. So I think that during this initial period of time, items like the one you have just mentioned are coming to light—maybe a definition in one statute doesn't quite mesh entirely well or 100% with that in another statute.