Information & Ethics committee  I believe there was, but I'm going to ask Rose. There was not?

Information & Ethics committee  Certainly. Prior to the establishment of the panel, an agent of Parliament—take the Auditor General—would prepare a Treasury Board submission duly signed off by the Minister of Finance. Under the traditional process, it would have gone directly to Treasury Board—the cabinet committee.

Information & Ethics committee  The role this panel is able to play at this point in time is circumscribed by the Financial Administration Act. The authorities and powers of Treasury Board are vested in that cabinet committee, and therefore for the panel to be afforded more than an advisory role would require an adjustment to the Financial Administration Act as it describes the authorities of Treasury Board.

Information & Ethics committee  I'll certainly try to do that. I may ask Rose O'Reilly to back me up on this one, because she's likely to be able to bring more information to the floor. The panel process was expanded to include more agents of Parliament than initially envisaged because of the interest expressed by the agents of Parliament and the fact that the compelling issue here, the conflict of interest issue, was felt to be shared by all of them--shared to different degrees, because of their different levels of interaction, and from different angles, because of their varying mandates.

Information & Ethics committee  Certainly in the course of doing the evaluation that we've talked about, inclusion of the view of the committee, discussion with the clerk of the committee, etc., would be part of the evaluation process. So we would hope to have the benefit of the input of committee members as we move forward.

Information & Ethics committee  It may be that decisions have been taken to the effect that before we run, maybe we should walk. Maybe this is a first step on a journey that will take us somewhere else. But certainly at this stage the Treasury Board obviously still holds the authorities that are conferred on it by the FAA, and until the FAA is changed and there is a head of steam to provoke that, we are where we are.

Information & Ethics committee  I don't think it's an issue of right or wrong. Right now it's more a matter of what we're bound with by law. Right now—

Information & Ethics committee  I'm going to defer to Rose on that. My recollection is that they did not last year. That's not to say they may not next year.

Information & Ethics committee  That process should unfold in much the same way as it would otherwise. The review of the estimates by the committee, with or without the panel, should unfold in the same manner. I think what might be a little different is some of the conversation you might have with the agents at that point in time around the development of their estimates and the degree to which they feel their resource requirements have been met or not met.

Information & Ethics committee  Certainly, as I said, we don't feel that we've necessarily got it perfect on the first run. As for room for further discussion of the estimates, there's always one more question that could or should be asked and would be informative and helpful. I guess it boils down to the availability of people in this room, panel members and others, as to whether that questioning takes place.

Information & Ethics committee  The evaluation is not yet under way. We want to talk a bit more to the agents of Parliament about the framework for the evaluation to ensure that we all agree we have the right components being measured in there. It's quite likely we'll have that conducted by an independent third party to ensure there's no bias, even in the way the evaluation rolls out.

Information & Ethics committee  Exactly.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes. I hear exactly what you're saying, and certainly the panel is not a guarantee of any particular outcome. But there is a difference, in that by virtue of the panel process, when the Treasury Board Secretariat assessment is put to Treasury Board—the cabinet committee—that Treasury Board Secretariat assessment has been enriched by the panel deliberations and the panel recommendations.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes. The one we have relied most closely on is the U.K. model, but it is not a perfect mirroring, because the U.K. model is, I would say, weighted a little differently from ours. We therefore brought a particularly Canadian approach to the model we have here. Certainly as we go forward, as I said, there will be an evaluation of how it's working from a process point of view.

Information & Ethics committee  Mr. Chair, I would preface my comments by noting that my declaration of victory is in advance of the evaluation having been conducted. Our experience to date has been positive.