Government Operations committee  I think throughout any audit that we have, and especially recently where we've looked at procurements, the public servants who are in the actual procurement groups across the federal public service take such pride in the work they do and the advice they try to give. I don't believe here that this was done in an intentional way, and that's why I say it's important for the public service to sit back and understand what's driving the behaviour we're seeing.

Government Operations committee  I guess we could give you the names of the departments that were involved in those and then....

Government Operations committee  Mr. Chair, we can provide the departments involved in those four contracts and the dates of those four contracts. One of my previous comments was that there are 97 here and there are probably 97 unique differences. That's something to bear in mind as you go through this. Every contract has some uniqueness or some story around it.

Government Operations committee  The comment I made is one that was actually just implemented, I believe, by Treasury Board. It was an announcement that those were some of the strengths brought to the procurement process. I think that reflects on the complexity of all the rules that exist. It's not just Treasury Board policies.

Government Operations committee  I think one point to clarify here is that the national master standing offer was done in a non-competitive way. While Public Services and Procurement Canada provided a justification, we felt it was rather weak. Then the next step is where I think confusion existed: when there were 19 call-ups against the national master standing offer.

Government Operations committee  Public Services and Procurement Canada issues many contracts. They were not involved in all 97 here, but we found that they could have done a better job of challenging. I think that's one of the big questions that the public service needs to ask itself: What is it about the rules that's causing this behaviour?

Government Operations committee  That's a difficult question to answer. I think we saw, in some of the contracts we reviewed, that they felt that once one contract had been issued, McKinsey would then have knowledge of the business, which then justified their being more efficient and effective in future contracts.

Government Operations committee  I'm going to give a really quick answer and see if Nick wants to add anything, but I would say they followed the rules well.

Government Operations committee  I, too, am a bit puzzled by this. In my opinion, these are basic rules, and they should be followed in contracting. As for not using the expertise that exists in the public service, I think this is a pertinent question and the answer varies from one department or agency to another.

Government Operations committee  Do I agree that it holds its position?

Government Operations committee  I agree that it should be using public funds in a way that brings the best value to Canadians, absolutely.

Government Operations committee  Well, absolutely. Every individual should trust their government.

Government Operations committee  Mr. Chair, I believe the member is referring to the motion in the House that is, I think, being voted on later on today. In my view, including my office in that motion was unnecessary. I made it clear last week that I would co-operate with the RCMP if they felt it necessary to come to my office and ask for information.

Government Operations committee  If it's one out of 97, I'm not a calculator, but I'm going to say that almost 99% of those contracts did not involve ministerial interference.

Government Operations committee  Andrew responded before, but I'll expand on the answer. A deputy head is, through legislation, the accounting officer of an organization and ultimately accountable for all of the decisions made. This is delegated down through the organization. Everyone who has delegated authority has training about what it means.