Environment committee  I think we told you that there was a very limited impact of the carbon pricing on any inflation in this country. It's a negligible factor—

Environment committee  It doesn't cost billions of dollars—

Environment committee  It happens regularly between departments—

Environment committee  John, would you comment?

Environment committee  John can go into this with the details, but the way we account for this, as you know, is being reviewed internationally on a regular basis and by peers in Canada. There has been a review process, and we should get new numbers quite soon, if I remember it well.

Environment committee  It's more of an accounting issue. I think John can go into this. It's a different methodology, but the methodology we use is recognized internationally. It's been recognized by United Nations organizations and by experts. It's just a different way, but we're not.... I don't know if John wants to handle this.

Environment committee  Just to give you a sense, when we were looking at the costs more than a decade ago, on an annual basis, the cost in insured goods or assets per year after catastrophes and environmental disasters was an average of close to $500 million. We're more in the $2-billion range now, so when the minister uses the $2-billion figure, that's where it's from.

Environment committee  I will turn to John, who has been our specialist on this for years.

Environment committee  When the carbon pricing increases, 80% of people who receive more money than they pay through the tax will receive even more money. If you look at the numbers the minister presented, they increased compared to last year. Money doesn't stay in the government's pocket; it's sent back.

Environment committee  I don't do that. That's not the work I do. What I'm saying is that from a purely mathematical perspective, the money that comes from carbon pricing is going back to Canadians. It's going back to a redistribution that makes sure that people who are in worse conditions get more, people who are in rural areas get more and people who are in first nation, Inuit and Métis communities get more too.

Environment committee  The minister told you about the numbers from the.... I beg to disagree with the PBO on this. What can I tell you? As I said, I don't disagree with the Bank of Canada, which says carbon pricing has a very limited impact—I think it was 0.2% or 0.3%—on inflation.

Environment committee  We have a methodological issue with him. With the way he calculated it, if he doesn't take that into account.... I trust he is using the right numbers, but we would take into account the cost of climate change. It's the same thing when he doesn't take into account the investments from businesses to green their businesses or invest in clean energy, which also creates jobs and creates growth in the economy.

Environment committee  Let's say we would take that into account, because we are the Department of the Environment and we think the costs.... I've been the deputy minister of other departments and managed emergency issues. The costs of managing emergency issues have increased significantly in departments—

Environment committee  We can. We actually published our difference with the PBO at the time, so we can share it with the committee. As the minister said, it's not something new. It's something that's been said before, but we would be more than happy to share that.

Environment committee  I'm not sure I had the numbers for Regina. I spent a lot of time on the issues of the food banks when I was the deputy minister of ESDC, because that was part of the mandate. Like any Canadian, I'm quite concerned by this issue of affordability. I'm quite pleased to see that inflation is going down a bit.