Finance committee  We represent about 80% in the different industries.

Finance committee  The FTQ presented a proposal to the Government of Quebec regarding the introduction of a multi-employer defined benefit pension plan. Under this plan, the employer contribution is a fixed amount. Because it is a multi-employer plan, the companies do not assume the risk. On the other hand, rather than a plan that is limited in terms of the reserve—for example, to 100% or 105%—this type of plan could go as high as 130%, meaning that when there are stock market fluctuations, the pension amount will not be reduced.

Finance committee  Yes, it is.

Finance committee  Yes, exactly, except that the benefit will differ depending on what you purchase in terms of value.

Finance committee  That is the way it is for all companies and all employees, when buying a pension benefit.

Finance committee  We have 45,000 members.

Finance committee  Are you talking about these industries?

Finance committee  That would certainly be a step in the right direction. However, at one point we proposed the creation of a trust on an ongoing basis. When money is transferred to the Quebec Pension Plan, it is because the plan is being wound down. If we want the Quebec government to assume responsibility--

Finance committee  -- it will first be necessary to provide for assistance from the federal government, so that it can provide protection, be in a position to take greater risks, increase the value and purchase the pension once it is complete.

Finance committee  On the government side, they have not really been listening. Other than hearing us out, I have the feeling that they don't understand the pulp and paper industry, even though it has created so many jobs—jobs that have fostered Canada's development. We have received no help whatsoever, and that applies as well to the pension issue.

Finance committee  There is no doubt that would improve things in future because the company would be released from full responsibility for deficits in the new plan that would be introduced. However, as far as the past is concerned, that would resolve nothing. Where a company is having trouble coming out from under the CCAA, two or three years later, given that the paper industry continues to decline and to opt for this kind of protection, we still would be no further ahead in terms of our retirees or future retirees, because the plan would still not be deemed a preferred claim.

Finance committee  I believe that our neighbours to the South protect pensions up to $56,000 or $59,000. That is a great improvement in terms of protection. If we had that in the pulp and paper industry, I believe we would cover the vast majority of our members. And we don't need to go very far to see that.

Finance committee  I would like to make a comment. In New Brunswick, Bill 51 set out an eight-year period for Fraser Papers, so that they could invest the money and try and secure a 4% improvement in pension benefits. There is no certainty that will happen, but there is a minimum guaranteed period of at least eight years.

Finance committee  Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to begin by thanking you for your invitation to participate in this important study. Indeed, as Vice-President of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada, I am always concerned about issues that relate to retirement plans, and let us just say that I am even more concerned these days.

Finance committee  I am not on the retirement committee as such. Germain might be able to answer that question.