National Defence committee  It's not a comment, sir, on the Canadian Hydrographic Service, and I don't want to draw any bad light on them. They've got quite a mighty coastline to take care of and limited resources to do it. The charts are good, but they're very old. The real issue is that you sail, as we say, over a lot of white paper.

National Defence committee  I can't comment as to that. I know that there is limited capability. They use it for ice forecasting and things of that nature. It's a combination of aerial ship reports and satellite imagery along with aerial reconnaissance, as I said, but in order to provide accurate soundings and imagery in hydrographic data it requires ships to be there to deploy equipment and to gather that kind of information.

National Defence committee  Again, it's possibly feasible. But this technology and these systems are governed by various international bodies. In order for the manufacturers of this technology to even use it on board, they have to pass very rigorous testing. The classification societies that govern the construction of vessels and the equipment that's on board are well aware of this risk.

National Defence committee  That's a complicated question. International shipping is governed by what's termed the ISPS--international ship and port facility security--code or regulations, which is governed by the IMO. Of course, Canada is a participant, so we have the same security protocols in place. This is to protect the ship but also to protect the port from people or harmful substances or things of this nature.

National Defence committee  The U.S. is now starting to realize the same things we're grappling with now. There is significant activity in their sector in terms of oil exploration. Also, the world's largest nickel mines and I think North America's largest coal mines are in Alaska. The U.S. is dealing with the export and the transit of those kinds of resources out of ice-covered waters.

National Defence committee  That's right.

National Defence committee  That's right.

National Defence committee  The Russians have several, but the largest one that would be similar to ours in terms of operating in ice is the Admiral Makarov academy. We don't so much view each other as competitors; we are now starting to actually look at working together. I've met with several of their officials, and I intend on going over there this spring.

National Defence committee  What I mean by marine technology is the design of the vessel and how it's able to do things. I'll give you an example. The Finns have come up with a very clever design whereby the vessel actually turns around and goes backwards, or sternways, through the ice. It's excellent technology for vessels that have to make transits through continuous-coverage ice.

National Defence committee  There are very good legislative tools that have been put in place to govern operations in the Arctic. Canada's fantastic Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act, and the legislation that goes around that defining legislation, is very good. Right now, vessels operating there are required to carry some standard form for controlling a spill and must at least start the cleanup of a spill if a spill happens.

National Defence committee  Yes. Under present IMO regulations, there are several layers of identifying technology on board. There is long-range tracking and a technology called AIS, automatic identification systems. With AIS, when a vessel is interrogated by another ship's radar, a brief snapshot of the vessel—what it is, where it's going, what it's carrying—appears to the other ship.

National Defence committee  That's a good question. The primary reason that the Russians became so involved in nuclear energy for their icebreaking vessels was that, like us, they were dealing with a remote area, a limited infrastructure, and difficult supply routes. This is why they went with the nuclear approach.

National Defence committee  Yes, the Russians have four, and they had plans for four more.

National Defence committee  That's a really good question. For search and rescue purposes, which was the main driver behind this.... This was obviously to identify a vessel through its transponders for search and rescue purposes. So there was no reason to transfer them. If you're talking about a security point of view, it's possible.

National Defence committee  We've done them for some analysis for planned or possible facilities. We have two types of simulations that we engage in. One is primarily for operational purposes, the immediate purposes of learning how to navigate in ice, using technology, and things of that nature. The other one is more of a large-scale industrial response.