Industry committee  But it's fraught with implementation danger, I would say.

Industry committee  That's another big question. If you're talking about reductions in SR and ED and more directed R and D, that's a pretty interesting question, and there's lots of room for debate about that. At the micro level of early-stage companies, clearly we think that creating an environment that enables entrepreneurs to succeed is the right way to go.

Industry committee  The way to do what you're suggesting in strategic sectors is to invest in infrastructure that can be widely used by both academic institutions and industry, not to choose particular company winners. That's the way to do it.

Industry committee  I would say that we don't try to reach in and pull out the best and the brightest, unless it's highly obvious. We're not prescient enough to know which entrepreneur at an early stage has an idea that will really make it. We always get surprised. In fact, most early-stage companies start with a vision and a plan that doesn't get realized.

Industry committee  I think they're having a huge impact. Communitech is a good example. MaRS is a good example. TEC Edmonton is a good example. Innovate Calgary in Calgary is a good example. They're making a difference, but keep in mind, too, that universities have many researchers doing research that is not and probably never will be commercializable, so the percentage of researchers at any given university who commercialize technology will always be low.

Industry committee  Also, a reduction of support for capital rather than labour is the opposite of what should be done if we want to focus on increasing productivity. If we support spending more on labour alone, that's not contributing to productivity. We want return on labour, so we should be supporting capital investments as well.

Industry committee  There are two fundamental approaches in the way universities manage intellectual property, and then there is variance within the two. The two approaches are inventor-owned and institution-owned; that basically says who owns the intellectual property. Then, within them there are various gain-sharing rights that have been negotiated at each university.

Industry committee  What it specifically looks like is a lot of support activity to help researchers understand whether they have a commercializable idea or technology, and if they do, working with them to help decide what the best way to commercialize is. Is it to licence it out to an existing company?

Industry committee  I'll start. I think the answer is quite quantitative. New jobs come from early-stage companies. Most new jobs come from companies under five years old. Those are the facts: early-stage companies matter.

Industry committee  I am.

Industry committee  There's only the possibility of giving you a subjective answer to that question, but if I had to come down on one side or the other, I would say no, we're not. That being said, in the country we're doing a lot better than we have been doing in the past. We can all point with pride to Waterloo as an example of experiential-based learning that clearly has an effect on the approach graduates take coming out of there.

Industry committee  Thank you. I agree with everything that my fellow witnesses are saying, and absolutely, harmonization with Europe is important. Doing things that we can do to attract investment for major pharmaceuticals is important, but I would also caution the committee to remember that new economic activity clearly comes from early-stage companies.

Industry committee  Thank you very much. I appreciate having the opportunity to come and speak with you. My name is Chris Lumb, and I'm the CEO of TEC Edmonton, which is a joint venture between the University of Alberta and the City of Edmonton. I'm speaking to you predominantly as a representative of the University of Alberta, but also as a representative of institutes and institutions that universities create.